TheGreatestEver123 · 41-45, M
Logic, evidence and rationality
Thanks, everyone, for sharing your opinions on the matter and keeping things pretty respectful. I've read almost everyone's comments and even though I've not walked in your shoes, I do understand why you have the stance that you have. I'll keep you all in my prayer and, hopefully, one day you'll get to encounter Him yourself (if you haven't already). ♥️
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JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@Pfuzylogic Happy Thanksgiving.
NIC0LE · F
@JimboSaturn I don't know how I was arrogant or condescending. That was never the intention. For me it's like discovering a diamond that's beat up. No one sees that it's a diamond and so my hope is that you see it for what it is, even from the environment in which you dwell in. That's it. I won't take away from where you're coming from, but I, also, won't diminish the value of what is. Happy Thanksgiving. 🥰
ArishMell · 70-79, M
I could equally ask why you believe in God.
Religious belief - note, "religious", covering all faiths and denominations - and agnostiscism and atheism - should only ever be purely personal choices, not driven by anyone else. What one person strongly believes may not suit, or indeed be denied, by another.
For me:
1) I can neither prove nor disprove any existence or non-existence of any deity or deities.
2) I have seen neither proof nor disproof of any such deity / deities. Religious scriptures record only their authors' mystic beliefs.
3) I accept but can neither prove nor disprove that there may have been a man called Jesus.
4) I have seen neither proof nor disproof that if he existed, he had any divine characteristics. (The only accounts are by a few men who believed he had those. Islam holds that he existed and was a wise preacher, but purely human. I do not know the Judaic take on Jesus,but of course he and his disciples were of that faith, the only religion extant in their region at the time, though surrounded by peoples of other beliefs - the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Persians and of course the Romans. Christianity's Hebrew foundations' own origins included the ancient, Persian, Zorastrianism.)
6) There are many widely different religions and denominations in the world; all with their more fervent followers rather arrogantly claiming only theirs right and all others wrong. That variety shows the claim is vain and spurious. Any given faith is "true" only to its own followers - but importantly, that does not mean those of one faith cannot accept the fact, and be friends with those of other faiths and none.
7) I, from a mildly Anglican background and who have friends in the Church, have no personal reason to believe in any deity or deities.
Religious belief - note, "religious", covering all faiths and denominations - and agnostiscism and atheism - should only ever be purely personal choices, not driven by anyone else. What one person strongly believes may not suit, or indeed be denied, by another.
For me:
1) I can neither prove nor disprove any existence or non-existence of any deity or deities.
2) I have seen neither proof nor disproof of any such deity / deities. Religious scriptures record only their authors' mystic beliefs.
3) I accept but can neither prove nor disprove that there may have been a man called Jesus.
4) I have seen neither proof nor disproof that if he existed, he had any divine characteristics. (The only accounts are by a few men who believed he had those. Islam holds that he existed and was a wise preacher, but purely human. I do not know the Judaic take on Jesus,but of course he and his disciples were of that faith, the only religion extant in their region at the time, though surrounded by peoples of other beliefs - the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Persians and of course the Romans. Christianity's Hebrew foundations' own origins included the ancient, Persian, Zorastrianism.)
6) There are many widely different religions and denominations in the world; all with their more fervent followers rather arrogantly claiming only theirs right and all others wrong. That variety shows the claim is vain and spurious. Any given faith is "true" only to its own followers - but importantly, that does not mean those of one faith cannot accept the fact, and be friends with those of other faiths and none.
7) I, from a mildly Anglican background and who have friends in the Church, have no personal reason to believe in any deity or deities.
calicuz · 56-60, M
This is probably the biggest misconception among the Christian community, but promoted more by Christian Nationalism which controls the doctrine of the American Protestant Church.
Just because a person doesn't believe Christ was God, doesn't mean they reject him, especially any of his teachings.
Take myself, I was born and raised in the Apostolic Church, but I no longer believe Christ is God, but he was a great prophet that came for his people, and we that are not his people can apply the best of his teachings as we can apply the best of all wise men's teachings.
I simply have chosen the Wisdom of the founders and choose to be a diest.
Just because a person doesn't believe Christ was God, doesn't mean they reject him, especially any of his teachings.
Take myself, I was born and raised in the Apostolic Church, but I no longer believe Christ is God, but he was a great prophet that came for his people, and we that are not his people can apply the best of his teachings as we can apply the best of all wise men's teachings.
I simply have chosen the Wisdom of the founders and choose to be a diest.
MayorOfCrushtown · M
@MayorOfCrushtown I don't believe you just provide a list of names at the end of your prayer. There's got to be something you ask God to do with that.
MayorOfCrushtown · M
@NerdyPotato well….. the good news is….. if he doesn’t actually exist, then none of it matters anyway. If he does exists, then he’ll know what to do. LOL
@MayorOfCrushtown you're trying really hard to avoid a very simple question. 😉 But you're right that it probably doesn't make a difference no matter what you ask.
OogieBoogie · F
Oh i believe in God, but prolly not as you do.
I belive in Jesus, but again prolly not like you.
I believe in our species....to a degree.
I believe in looking for answers, information and history.
I believe in an open mind.
I also believe that we were given free thought to become more so God itself can evolve through us.
I belive we are God ....or rather a shard of it. We reflect all that god is.....all the wrath to all the love.
I believe that Jesus was a prophet who was strong in spirit to remind us what we are....which is a god in the making.
I belive in Jesus, but again prolly not like you.
I believe in our species....to a degree.
I believe in looking for answers, information and history.
I believe in an open mind.
I also believe that we were given free thought to become more so God itself can evolve through us.
I belive we are God ....or rather a shard of it. We reflect all that god is.....all the wrath to all the love.
I believe that Jesus was a prophet who was strong in spirit to remind us what we are....which is a god in the making.
Tumbleweed · F
RosaMarie · 46-50, F
The totally lack of any scientific evidence. This means something which can be tested repeatedly and yield consistent results.
If we eliminated all knowledge today, given enough time, we would relearn, reestablish all of the knowledge of math and science. Jesus wouldn't come back in that scenario. Other gods would, but not the same ones.
If we eliminated all knowledge today, given enough time, we would relearn, reestablish all of the knowledge of math and science. Jesus wouldn't come back in that scenario. Other gods would, but not the same ones.
NIC0LE · F
@RosaMarie Science is only a tool and imperfect one at that and yet He still used it to point to His existence. Several great scientists have even made statements confirming He must exist. Including that pesky one who initially declared we evolved from gorillas. ☺ My only hope is that science shows you for you. ❤
22Michelle · 70-79, T
@NIC0LE Evidence please.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
StygianKohlrabi · 46-50, M
I believe in Christ that he existed anyways and its due to my prayers sometimes being answered in weird ways
OogieBoogie · F
@Royricky09 i not sure shes forcing.... just asking.
People find spiritual solace from many paths....and in many ways.
For some it's Buddhism, for others its Christianity.
For some its science: physics and evolution.
Its all connected.
At least thats my rough idea of it🤷♀
People find spiritual solace from many paths....and in many ways.
For some it's Buddhism, for others its Christianity.
For some its science: physics and evolution.
Its all connected.
At least thats my rough idea of it🤷♀
NIC0LE · F
@Royricky09 It's simply me looking at it matter of factly. If I ask a person a question, then it's my expectation of that person to respond. To be God must mean He supercedes that of a person, yes? Other than that, we're all gods. I, for one, know that I am not so then I take it matter of factly to Him. In the same way you asked me a question. By experience, your expectancy is a response from me or not. God is supposed to do what we can do and more. It's a very simple way to go about this. Not a figment of the imagination but taking Him as He is. 🤷🏾♀
@NIC0LE again... So basically you have NO clue at all. And you missed to answer the question, is he the only god?
Also, I'm not against your beliefs or anything. Just trying to understand the facts.
Thanks for putting so much effort to respond nicely... Lol...
Also, I'm not against your beliefs or anything. Just trying to understand the facts.
Thanks for putting so much effort to respond nicely... Lol...
Bklynbadboy12 · 36-40, M
They dont want to believe trust me the feel his power everyday just like we do
Degbeme · 70-79, M
I don`t do religion of any kind.
MartinTheFirst · 26-30, M
@Degbeme You're late in your years, so I'm sure you've loved people whom you've lost. You only have one life where you can make up your beliefs and find hope, a lot of people think early on that being stubborn/proud in believing that everything is a lost cause is somehow righteous, but when you get close to the end I imagine you start thinking that kind of thinking is quite pretentious, reserved for people who have a lot left to experience and waste away.
Have you really exhausted all your options? If there's a cure to a sickness, such as death, isn't it worth exploring every corner of the earth to find it? That's what scientists do, and that's also what religious people do, in a different way. I'm fortunate to be one of those people who have found it, and I believe you can find it too, it's not over yet.
Have you really exhausted all your options? If there's a cure to a sickness, such as death, isn't it worth exploring every corner of the earth to find it? That's what scientists do, and that's also what religious people do, in a different way. I'm fortunate to be one of those people who have found it, and I believe you can find it too, it's not over yet.
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AnonymousJSS · 22-25, F
MartinTheFirst · 26-30, M
@MartinTheFirst ...
AnonymousJSS · 22-25, F
@MartinTheFirst That’s not how I “feel”, that’s just how it is lmao.
SW-User
I’ve read the Bible and attended Bible studies. I’ve also studied other religions, philosophies and book’s written by people of all different walks.
I have my own thoughts that aren’t Christian based. I think Jesus was sent to earth as a healer. I feel the same about MLKJr and other people who have lived and given their lives for unity.
God, or however you choose to express it, signifies love or a kind of parent in most religions. We look to God when things go right or wrong, when truth is nature rules this planet, the cycle of life that we think we can manipulate and cheat.
I have no issues with anyone’s religion, it’s when individuals have no personal accountability for their efforts towards unity. And Christianity often goes against its own teachings and from what I’ve studied, likely manipulated most truths to instill fear. Perhaps they thought that would bring unity, but it seems more like control.
Yet I know people of any religion who would do something kind because it’s simply in their heart.
So basically i refrain from having opinions on what is claimed to be truth. Truth is highly subjective and individualized.
I study and I ponder and walk the earth lightly. I have little to no stance on what’s real, but I do know what my own eyes have seen, what my heart has felt.
Unity. Even though everybody I know kinda hates me for it 🤷🏼♀️
I have my own thoughts that aren’t Christian based. I think Jesus was sent to earth as a healer. I feel the same about MLKJr and other people who have lived and given their lives for unity.
God, or however you choose to express it, signifies love or a kind of parent in most religions. We look to God when things go right or wrong, when truth is nature rules this planet, the cycle of life that we think we can manipulate and cheat.
I have no issues with anyone’s religion, it’s when individuals have no personal accountability for their efforts towards unity. And Christianity often goes against its own teachings and from what I’ve studied, likely manipulated most truths to instill fear. Perhaps they thought that would bring unity, but it seems more like control.
Yet I know people of any religion who would do something kind because it’s simply in their heart.
So basically i refrain from having opinions on what is claimed to be truth. Truth is highly subjective and individualized.
I study and I ponder and walk the earth lightly. I have little to no stance on what’s real, but I do know what my own eyes have seen, what my heart has felt.
Unity. Even though everybody I know kinda hates me for it 🤷🏼♀️
Ducky · 31-35, F
I do believe a man named Jesus existed historically during the first century, as do many scholars and historians. But do I believe he was the son God, born of a virgin, performed miracles, was resurrected, etc? As a logical person, no, I don’t. But just because I don’t believe in that doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the existence of a God and believing in Jesus (in one sense or another) is not synonymous with not believing in God.
Mostly because it is pure fantasy. A book/story written by humans. It sure was successful though, probably the best selling book ever, even more than Lord of the Rings, and I would much rather believe there were Elves, and Orks, and Hobbits and Goblins running around, than think some magical being in space is going to save me. But I understand if you drink the coolaide every day, that is your thing. Enjoy.
NIC0LE · F
@JamesBugman It's unfortunate that that's your thought process. I hope you have a moment like myself where you actually figure out that He's the real deal.
I'll leave you with this though. There was a time where if someone told us there were multiple galaxies, we wouldn't have believed them. Now that we have the instruments to collect data and to "see", do we "believe". The same with the shape of this planet. There were a whole lot more flat earthers than there are today simply because they believed with their eyes. But in the grand scheme of things, the truth is still, the earth is round and there are way more galaxies than we can perceive.
Just because we don't see Him, doesn't negate the truth of His existence. The thing is though is His signature is everywhere, just like that of an artist and the tool needed to see Him, you reject. Don't harden your heart to the possibility that He does actually exist simply because He chose men to write about Him. You'll meet Him one day and you'll have to bear the weight of that rejection for a lot longer than I have on this earth. I always tell people, if you have any doubt, just ask Him. He will most definitely answer you. ♥️
I'll leave you with this though. There was a time where if someone told us there were multiple galaxies, we wouldn't have believed them. Now that we have the instruments to collect data and to "see", do we "believe". The same with the shape of this planet. There were a whole lot more flat earthers than there are today simply because they believed with their eyes. But in the grand scheme of things, the truth is still, the earth is round and there are way more galaxies than we can perceive.
Just because we don't see Him, doesn't negate the truth of His existence. The thing is though is His signature is everywhere, just like that of an artist and the tool needed to see Him, you reject. Don't harden your heart to the possibility that He does actually exist simply because He chose men to write about Him. You'll meet Him one day and you'll have to bear the weight of that rejection for a lot longer than I have on this earth. I always tell people, if you have any doubt, just ask Him. He will most definitely answer you. ♥️
@NIC0LE I am happy you believe, it seems to do you good.
My thoughts go back to my dog when he died the first time. We loved each other completely, and during a walk he had a heart attack and he died, right on the street. His heart was not beating, so I gave him CPR as best as I could, not knowing how to do it, and after 5 minutes or so he suddenly opened his eyes and sat up, and I could see instantly that he had no idea who I was, or what had happened and he stared at me. I actually thought he was going to bite me, my heart of hearts, but then he suddenly went limp and died a second time, and this time I could not revive him. I wasn't sure if I should, because I didn't want him to suffer, and that was the end of his story.
The lesson here is that your brain is you, there is nothing other than that, the physical part of you is just water, but your brain holds all you are, and when your brain dies, everything you ever were or did, or knew, is gone, there is nothing after that.
Ashes to ashes, and dust to dust is an accurate statement.
Look at anyone that has had a traumatic brain injury, do you think they still believe in god? They most likely have forgotten all about it.
Do you think when a person that has lost part of their mind, all their memories, all their motor functions, when they die are they going to heaven like that? Do they go to heaven as they were before the accident? Do they go to heaven as a teenager maybe, or as an old person, or somehow things are fixed for them. None of it makes any sense. You can make up whatever you want in this fantasy, but that is all it is.
My thoughts go back to my dog when he died the first time. We loved each other completely, and during a walk he had a heart attack and he died, right on the street. His heart was not beating, so I gave him CPR as best as I could, not knowing how to do it, and after 5 minutes or so he suddenly opened his eyes and sat up, and I could see instantly that he had no idea who I was, or what had happened and he stared at me. I actually thought he was going to bite me, my heart of hearts, but then he suddenly went limp and died a second time, and this time I could not revive him. I wasn't sure if I should, because I didn't want him to suffer, and that was the end of his story.
The lesson here is that your brain is you, there is nothing other than that, the physical part of you is just water, but your brain holds all you are, and when your brain dies, everything you ever were or did, or knew, is gone, there is nothing after that.
Ashes to ashes, and dust to dust is an accurate statement.
Look at anyone that has had a traumatic brain injury, do you think they still believe in god? They most likely have forgotten all about it.
Do you think when a person that has lost part of their mind, all their memories, all their motor functions, when they die are they going to heaven like that? Do they go to heaven as they were before the accident? Do they go to heaven as a teenager maybe, or as an old person, or somehow things are fixed for them. None of it makes any sense. You can make up whatever you want in this fantasy, but that is all it is.
NIC0LE · F
@NerdyPotato I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying it's moreso the Christians you've encountered?
@NIC0LE The hypocrisy of religious people doesn't particularly help the image of organized religion either, but a god could exist outside of churches. My objections come mostly from just looking at the world. There are a lot of beautiful things here, but also a lot of horrible stuff that simply didn't have to be created when starting from scratch. The fact that diseases and parasites exist at all, and were presumably created intentionally, tells me that if a creator was responsible for everything, it's one with quite a twisted mind.
TurtleEclipseOfTheHeart · 22-25, F
@NerdyPotato same 😭😭😭😭
Livingwell · 61-69, M
Before one can answer the question, we need to separate the concept of God from religion. Religion is a man made concept. It focuses around a central figure or figures. It requires acceptance of certain traditions and beliefs. Being it is something created by man, there is a suspicion that men are using it for their gains. And the evidence is quite strong. How many wars have been fought in the name of God?
God is a very different subject. Having quite a bit of education, knowledge and understanding of the basic rules of nature, and the complexity of living and non-living things, the probability that everything magically came together at exactly the same time in the exact way it was supposed to is impossible. To also consider the vastness of the universe and that it too comes together in the same precision we see here. Somewhere, there has to be a beginning. And something started that using a design, that with all of our intelligence and machines, can't be duplicated. It's not a man or a being. We are not sure what it is. Nor can we grasp its power and capabilities. So to understand it, we call it "God". Science is slowly piecing things together teaching us more and more, validating this beginning. Now that I can believe.
God is a very different subject. Having quite a bit of education, knowledge and understanding of the basic rules of nature, and the complexity of living and non-living things, the probability that everything magically came together at exactly the same time in the exact way it was supposed to is impossible. To also consider the vastness of the universe and that it too comes together in the same precision we see here. Somewhere, there has to be a beginning. And something started that using a design, that with all of our intelligence and machines, can't be duplicated. It's not a man or a being. We are not sure what it is. Nor can we grasp its power and capabilities. So to understand it, we call it "God". Science is slowly piecing things together teaching us more and more, validating this beginning. Now that I can believe.
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NIC0LE · F
@jshm2 These were my exact questions, at some point in my walk. God showed me this, though: Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy paths." Our own understanding of Him is very linear. We cannot really grasp all of who He is. Just like we cannot truly comprehend how Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit are all interconnected. So I won't try. I'll come to Him as simple as I am and allow Him to direct me. If He can't lead me, well, I'm doomed, aren't I? Plus any dude who would lay down His life for not just His friends, but for those who hate Him and will never accept him in their lifetime, is A-Ok in my book. Most of us would barely take a bullet for people we like. We, for sure, are not taking a bullet for any of our enemies. If the ones who walked with Him on a daily basis understood He isn't separate from God, taught that He isn't separate from God and is the salvation prophecied about years ago, if John the Baptist was content with being beheaded after he asked Him plainly if he was the one that even he, himself, proclaimed was coming, then I must have faith that He is as well. I must have faith that when I stand before God, that Jesus recognizes who I am and can vouch for me. We all have a court date scheduled. It's something we can't get out of. I can't afford to stand in front of God on my own. So if Jesus is the name that I was given, then Jesus is the name I will believe in whole heartedly until He directs me somewhere else. 🙂♥️
Mardrae · 61-69, F
I believe Jesus existed, but I don’t believe he is God. I believe that he was a Jewish rabbi who died just like everyone else does. I believe God is not a man or woman, but an energy force and everyone and everything is in that force. Kind of like an endless ocean that we are all drops of water. That’s the only way I know how to describe my belief about God.
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@NIC0LE
1. Yes, that's why I don't judge the possibility of a god by organized religion.
2. For some evil, I'm convinced humanity caused it. For other things I don't see how we could have had any role in it. And even if we had, the question remains why god didn't step in.
3. Yes, I've considered that, but can't think of any way parasites eating pray in such order that their victim stays alive in agony as long as possible has anything to do with humans' free will.
1. Yes, that's why I don't judge the possibility of a god by organized religion.
2. For some evil, I'm convinced humanity caused it. For other things I don't see how we could have had any role in it. And even if we had, the question remains why god didn't step in.
3. Yes, I've considered that, but can't think of any way parasites eating pray in such order that their victim stays alive in agony as long as possible has anything to do with humans' free will.
OogieBoogie · F
Coz i havent finished looking yet.
Ive never been completely comfortable with how Christianity views God .
Ive not been particualry comfortable with any religion so far, cept maybe Zoroastrianism.
Im very uncomfortable with the fear and dictative manner in which God can be portrayed. And am a little confused as to why it denies philosophic questing and Fuller comprehension of its beliefs .
Faith is a felt thing .
Ive just not found it fully yet .
Ive never been completely comfortable with how Christianity views God .
Ive not been particualry comfortable with any religion so far, cept maybe Zoroastrianism.
Im very uncomfortable with the fear and dictative manner in which God can be portrayed. And am a little confused as to why it denies philosophic questing and Fuller comprehension of its beliefs .
Faith is a felt thing .
Ive just not found it fully yet .
antonioioio · 70-79, M
masterofyou · 80-89, M
SarithBorn · 22-25, M
Simple fact proof where is the proof other than rumours and stories? 🤔
Pfuzylogic · M
SarithBorn · 22-25, M
@Pfuzylogic this is going nowhere i wish u well sir 🤣
Pfuzylogic · M
@SarithBorn My way to respond to an unspecified attack on religion.
Good day!
Good day!
Pfuzylogic · M
@Jenny1234
How do you identify your God?
How do you identify your God?
Jenny1234 · 56-60, F
@Pfuzylogic it’s the creator of our universe, source of all things created.
Pfuzylogic · M
@Jenny1234
Besides the Abrahamic God I really don’t know of a religion that claims a creator.
Besides the Abrahamic God I really don’t know of a religion that claims a creator.
DaddyThomas · 46-50, M
Bklynbadboy12 · 36-40, M
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
Straylight · 31-35, F
vorian · 51-55, M
Simple question... how old do you think the earth is?
LeopoldBloom · M
Lack of compelling evidence.
SW-User
I’d give you my honest answer in private dawg
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