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Marx on the US

Karl Marx was not only a connoisseur of American politics, but also an ardent supporter of Abraham Lincoln and the Republican Party. Like thousands of Germans, by the way, the so-called Forty-Eighters - those "forty-eights" who fled to America after the failure of the German Revolution in 1848/49 and later, in the civil war, sided with the party for the liberation of slaves and its president.

"Work in white skin cannot emancipate itself where it is branded in black skin," Marx wrote to Lincoln.

Today that excitement would give way to horror. Because the party for the liberation of slaves, in which German socialists were once active, has long since become the party of the former slave owners, in which racists have also found a political home.

How would Karl Marx explain Donald Trump's victory? Marx would have looked at the economic substructure of society and tried to explain the actions of the actors, and here in particular the ruling class, the bourgeoisie, from their economic interests.

“Interest does not think, it calculates. The motives are his numbers”, wrote Marx as early as 1842 in the “Debates on the Law on theft of wood”.

As a critic of political economy, Marx may have first analyzed how the capitalist mode of production has changed in recent decades. For while certain basic elements - such as the drive for profit as the engine of the economy - define capitalism, there are nevertheless very different forms of capital accumulation nowadays.

As a historian and politician, Marx would have taken the next step and ruthlessly dissected the pitiful state of American democracy. He would have referred to the exuberant influence of big money, to which politics in Washington is increasingly subject, and to the associated erosion of democracy.
And Marx must have dealt intensively with the fact that both parties, Republicans and Democrats, primarily have the interests of the American bourgeoisie in mind. In the words of Gore Vidal:
“There is only one party in the United States, the ownership party. And it has two wings: republican and democratic.”
As usual, Marx would have been only half right. MAGA has more to do with white grievance than economics. A survey of the 1/6 rioters shows that they're not economically stressed so much as racially offended; more of them come from counties that have seen a large influx of non-white people than ones whose standard of living has fallen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/us/politics/capitol-riot-study.html

I don't know if Marx would have been "horrified" at the GOP's shift from the anti-slavery party to the white nationalist party. Even back then, the Republicans were the party of big business and the Democrats were the party of the working man. The Democrats were split between a pro-slavery southern faction and an anti-slavery northern one, with the realignment starting in the 1960s where conservative southern Democrats are now Republicans. What would have puzzled Marx is the shift of low-income working class whites from the Democrats to the Republicans, a move against their own economic interests. But this is explained by the observation that economic issues take a back seat to racial ones.
Spotpot · 41-45, M
@LeopoldBloom The result of the southern strategy
@ElwoodBlues If you go through his predictions in the Communist Manifesto, he's about half right. But he expected the communist revolution to start in an industrial country like England, in response to the atrocities he saw in front of him. He would have been shocked to find out that it started in an agrarian country like Russia. What he didn't predict were the limitations on laissez-faire capitalism imposed by the capitalists themselves, curbing the worst abuses to allow the system to continue.
@Spotpot Pretty much. The proof is that the South used to be a Democratic stronghold, and today it's a Republican one. The conservative southern Democrats became Republicans. They key word is "conservative." Conservatives started the KKK and their heirs are still here. They just switched parties.
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
Your post contradicts what i learned in college. So I googled "Karl Marx quotes about america", since your theory is that he admired the nation. Here are a few that google came up with. Nothing specifically with the word "America" unfortunately. Perhaps you have one or two?

“Democracy is the road to socialism.” ― Karl Marx

“The production of too many useful things results in too many useless people.” ― Karl Marx

“Religion is the opium of the masses.” ― Karl Marx

“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.” ― Karl Marx

“The theory of Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.” ― Karl Marx

[b]And last but not least, here's one which aptly summarizes the intent of your top post:
[/b]
If you can cut the people off from their history, then they can be easily persuaded.” – Karl Marx
Gloomy · F
@SusanInFlorida [quote]" The production of too many useful things results in too many useless people.” ― Karl Marx[/quote]

This quote is often attributed to Marx and is a reference to the idea that in capitalist societies, the drive for profit and efficency can lead to a situation where the majority of people are only able to survive by selling their labor to a small group of owners who control the means of production. In this case peoples lifes become reduced to their value as workers and they are unable to develop their full potential as human beings.
In other words the overproduction of goods can lead to a situation where people are reduced to being mere consumers, rather than active and creative participants in society.
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@Gloomy thank you. good to know. i interpreted it as a rant against automation, which results in unemployment among unskilled/semi-skilled labor. Marx DOES seem to idolize the cottage industries of 17th century europe, doesn't he?
Gloomy · F
@SusanInFlorida He did criticise automation but for different reasons.

Yes and I find it understandable given that the cottage industry was healthier for workers and communities.
Sure, Marx would have probably called the two parties a counterrevolutionary force empowered by our capitalist class, the bourgeoisie.
The masses don't appreciate their plight, the masses can't think about any alternatives to the present system. Therefore no "revolutionary" changes can be imposed by the masses. The ownership and the "dangerous classes", however have long been able to cause constant revolutionary changes and kill whatever they like, the ecosystem, all civilization -. They're actually preparing for the end of everything because hegemony is their ", right".
Spotpot · 41-45, M
I am sure an overwhelming majorite of conservatives havent read Marx.
Gloomy · F
@Spotpot They only know PragerU videos on the topic and some out of context or misattributed quotes online.
ViciDraco · 36-40, M
The big difference between the parties is social. Economically they are two sides of the same coin.

Democrats advocate for more for the common man, but those are words. When it comes to actions they are charged with doing just enough to prevent mass movements from forming. Even FDR regarding his new deal claimed it had to be done to prevent mass rebellion by the labor class. They instituted term limits after him and no president has accomplished so much good for labor since. Rather its been a slow process of Republicans rolling back his policies and then democrats making the rollback permanent.

Republicans operate by focusing the people's ire onto those "below" them. It's the immigrants fault. The poor are lazy. Minorities are prone to criminality. All of that.

Democrats try to slow release the anger to prevent it from boiling over and Republicans redirect the anger to the powerless so that the owner class need not feel the heat.

And then they throw a culture war over top of it so that you don't notice the economic shell game underneath.

Lately, a lot of Republicans have lost the plot though. They don't recognize democrats as the false foil to perpetuate the game, but as true enemies. The delicate balance of the show is being thrown off. And turmoil is the result.
@BritishFailedAesthetic This is Nazi shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
@BohemianBoo Read my recent post.
@BritishFailedAesthetic I was already aware that you were just trolling. I replied here so others can see how modern right-wing propaganda is just Nazism.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
Ben Aflexk comes from a family of slave owners and none of them are Republican .
If you want to know who owned slaves look at the last names on the roster of any pro sports team here in America .
@AthrillatheHunt How stupid.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
@SomeMichGuy tell me about it . Lol
SteelHands · 61-69, M
I agree partly. The only way to truly separate what has again become a uniparty is to ignore their racism chants, oppose and refuse their bribery, and hand the thing to Trump or someone just like him who they both hate.
originnone · 61-69, M
I just don't see it. I read everything you write and respect you, but I think you are extrapolating a great deal.
Baremine · 70-79, C
Obviously you have studied rewritten history which has warped your mind.
Gloomy · F
@Baremine You are the one affected by cold war propaganda not me.
I LOVE that you are so well read, and willing to share.

 
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