PalteseMalconFunch · 36-40, T
That’s what the investigators or for.
I honestly wouldn’t trust anyone that currently had an opinion on what happened.
Aircraft crash into each other sometimes. We eventually find the reason.
EDIT: I don’t just mean not trust them about the crash, I mean in general. Having an opinion already indicates a lack of critical thinking I believe.
Anything more than just “here’s the most common reason aircraft crash into each other” is irresponsible
I honestly wouldn’t trust anyone that currently had an opinion on what happened.
Aircraft crash into each other sometimes. We eventually find the reason.
EDIT: I don’t just mean not trust them about the crash, I mean in general. Having an opinion already indicates a lack of critical thinking I believe.
Anything more than just “here’s the most common reason aircraft crash into each other” is irresponsible
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@PalteseMalconFunch Yeah we can actually not know why something happened. It's fine. Speculation is pointless.
carpediem · 61-69, M
I heard a report that explained how it was possible that the helicopter crew did not see the commercial jet. When a helicopter is accelerating, it generally tilts forward making visibility above difficult. The jet has an issue seeing immediately below them.
It's a tragedy and surely could have been avoided. Hopefully the investigation is thorough and doesn't hold anything back or try to protect anyone.
It's a tragedy and surely could have been avoided. Hopefully the investigation is thorough and doesn't hold anything back or try to protect anyone.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
I don't get why an army helicopter would be carrying out training flights over a very busy civilian airfield. The army air station is not exactly close by either.
In Canada this is one reason we built military airfields outside city limits or even nowhere near a city.
Seems like doing Driver's Ed on a racetrack.
In Canada this is one reason we built military airfields outside city limits or even nowhere near a city.
Seems like doing Driver's Ed on a racetrack.
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Northwest · M
Why would anyone try to guess prior to an investigation.
The Sec. of Transportation is in charge of investigations not the Sec. of Defense.
This of course did not stop Trump from giving a 13+ minutes random speech, assigning blame on the bad job Pete Buttigieg he did as a Mayor in Indiana.
The Sec. of Transportation is in charge of investigations not the Sec. of Defense.
This of course did not stop Trump from giving a 13+ minutes random speech, assigning blame on the bad job Pete Buttigieg he did as a Mayor in Indiana.
Convivial · 26-30, F
@JimboSaturn by keeping the BS flowing continuously it's almost impossible to call him out
robingoodfellow · M
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LeopoldBloom · M
What a brilliant idea! There will never be another mid-air collision, as the aircraft can simply turn aside.
In reality, it’s not that easy to tell when another aircraft is getting too close as speeds are high and it’s hard to gauge distance and direction of approach.
In reality, it’s not that easy to tell when another aircraft is getting too close as speeds are high and it’s hard to gauge distance and direction of approach.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@LeopoldBloom
In reality, the top gun takes care of business. In surreality, is where America has been hijacked to by liberal progressive politics.
In reality, it’s not that easy to tell when another aircraft is getting too close as speeds are high and it’s hard to gauge distance and direction of approach.
In reality, the top gun takes care of business. In surreality, is where America has been hijacked to by liberal progressive politics.
Let us talk about the firing of the head of the TSA, gutting of the aviation safety committee for DEI, and head of the Coast Guard just last week Trump...
Oh but it is Biden and DEI's fault.
Oh but it is Biden and DEI's fault.
swirlie · 31-35, F
There is a optical phenomenon that relates to two objects that are on a collision course with each other known as 'Static Convergence Illusion'.
A mid-air collision or even a ground collision between two vehicles can be determined well in advance with tremendous accuracy by simply noting any change in the relative positions of each object while viewing that converging object through the glass of your windshield.
If you are inside the aircraft or vehicle and you notice the other craft moving ACROSS your windshield, you WILL NOT collide with that other craft because it is NOT on a collision course with you, since it's relative position is constantly changing on your windshield as it moves from left to right for example.
But if that other craft does not move on your windshield because it appears stationary as you BOTH move toward each other from ANY angle, you are on a collision course with that other craft.
This can better be described as the other craft appearing as an insect strike on your windshield, but as you get closer and closer to each other, that tiny spec on your windshield suddenly gets larger and larger, but does so without changing it's relative position on the glass of your windshield.
I believe that the helicopter's pilot simply did not notice the jet in front of him despite voice recordings confirming that the helicopter pilot had the jet in sight, only because those lights of the jet would NOT have moved on the glass of the helicopter pilot's windshield, which is why they collided... they were on a collision course and the jet would have appeared as a non-moving spec or smear on the helicopter pilot's windshield until both aircraft impacted with each other.
A mid-air collision or even a ground collision between two vehicles can be determined well in advance with tremendous accuracy by simply noting any change in the relative positions of each object while viewing that converging object through the glass of your windshield.
If you are inside the aircraft or vehicle and you notice the other craft moving ACROSS your windshield, you WILL NOT collide with that other craft because it is NOT on a collision course with you, since it's relative position is constantly changing on your windshield as it moves from left to right for example.
But if that other craft does not move on your windshield because it appears stationary as you BOTH move toward each other from ANY angle, you are on a collision course with that other craft.
This can better be described as the other craft appearing as an insect strike on your windshield, but as you get closer and closer to each other, that tiny spec on your windshield suddenly gets larger and larger, but does so without changing it's relative position on the glass of your windshield.
I believe that the helicopter's pilot simply did not notice the jet in front of him despite voice recordings confirming that the helicopter pilot had the jet in sight, only because those lights of the jet would NOT have moved on the glass of the helicopter pilot's windshield, which is why they collided... they were on a collision course and the jet would have appeared as a non-moving spec or smear on the helicopter pilot's windshield until both aircraft impacted with each other.
swirlie · 31-35, F
@sree251
No, it never asserted authority at analysis of the crash because I never concluded what the cause was, but it certainly did bring to light a very well known and often proven phenomenon that has been around since the time of Plato.
I'm very surprised that you're not familiar with that phenomenon I spoke of. 🤔
No, it never asserted authority at analysis of the crash because I never concluded what the cause was, but it certainly did bring to light a very well known and often proven phenomenon that has been around since the time of Plato.
I'm very surprised that you're not familiar with that phenomenon I spoke of. 🤔
Convivial · 26-30, F
It would appear that either someone didn't do their job properly or there is a hole in the procedures... The investigation will determine what happened.
Roundandroundwego · 61-69
Because military practice is just practicing, and there's a certain level of casualties along with all vehicles.
War practice - not going to enrage not going to be an issue here in the belly of the beast.
War practice - not going to enrage not going to be an issue here in the belly of the beast.
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@Roundandroundwego Why would they do training in a commercial airport landing flight path?
BizSuitStacy · M
Mostly a guess, but it looks like a communication failure on the part of the military air traffic controller.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
Where the blazes was Air Traffic Control???😷
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
@swirlie yes and thats what the air traffic controller asked the helicopter pilot. Thanjs for the info
swirlie · 31-35, F
@JimboSaturn
By the ATC guy asking the pilot if he'll accept visual separation, that legal absolves the ATC guy of the responsibility for keeping both aircraft separated by radar.
It's also used as means to place more aircraft in a tighter space, but also assumes that everyone involved has each other in sight and maintains that visual contact at all times.
By the ATC guy asking the pilot if he'll accept visual separation, that legal absolves the ATC guy of the responsibility for keeping both aircraft separated by radar.
It's also used as means to place more aircraft in a tighter space, but also assumes that everyone involved has each other in sight and maintains that visual contact at all times.
ididntknow · 51-55, M
Apparently there used to be an exam for traffic controllers, but it was dropped by the Biden regime, to help with diversity and inclusion, DEI
Roundandroundwego · 61-69
@ididntknow because the military helicopter doesn't respond to or obey air traffic control and because military practice is unnecessary, a threat, and dangerous to the public you have a civic responsibility to oppose it and not avoid the issue. As you are well aware.
ididntknow · 51-55, M
@Roundandroundwego what are you talking about
swirlie · 31-35, F
@ididntknow
That was all BS. The POTUS does not have the authority to supersede training requirements for air traffic controllers. The only person who would have said that to you would be a right-wing Trump supporter.
Apparently there used to be an exam for traffic controllers, but it was dropped by the Biden regime, to help with diversity and inclusion, DEI
That was all BS. The POTUS does not have the authority to supersede training requirements for air traffic controllers. The only person who would have said that to you would be a right-wing Trump supporter.
Reason10 · 70-79, M
It's all because of an air traffic controller SHORTAGE, caused by Obama and Biden pushing DEI.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
Woke people may be a minority in American society, so are cancer cells in an otherwise healthy human body. DEI is a deadly disease.
But we know how MAGA works. Blame minorities regardless of facts or evidence.
Woke people may be a minority in American society, so are cancer cells in an otherwise healthy human body. DEI is a deadly disease.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@sree251 We get that you are a bigot. That is the only fact here.
Northwest · M
@Reason10 Amazing how your mind works. There is nothing factual in that Fox clip. It's Trump rambling on.
Here are some facts:
In the aftermath of the deadly collision between a jetliner and a Black Hawk helicopter at Reagan National Airport, Trump held an extraordinary news conference during which he speculated on the cause of the accident. At length, he attacked former presidents Barack Obama and Joe Biden for imposing what he called “a big push to put diversity” that he said weakened the Federal Aviation Administration.
Reading from a 2024 Fox News report — which he incorrectly identified as being two weeks old — Trump listed conditions that he suggested disqualify people from being air traffic controllers: “hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability, and dwarfism.”
“Can you imagine?” he asked. “Brilliant people have to be in those positions, and their lives are actually shortened, very substantially shortened because of the stress.” He suggested that it was wrong for anyone with those conditions to qualify “for the position of a controller of airplanes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot, a little dot on the map, a little runway.”
But here’s the rub: During Trump’s first term, the FAA began a program to hire air traffic controllers with the conditions that Trump decried.
The facts
In the news conference, Trump said Obama weakened standards and “I changed the Obama standards from very mediocre at best, to extraordinary. … Then they changed it back — that was Biden.”
Trump’s claim was repeated in an executive order Trump signed Thursday that ordered a review of aviation safety: “During my first term, my Administration raised standards to achieve the highest standards of safety and excellence.”
That’s false. In his first term, Trump left the standards unchanged.
For air traffic controllers, the Obama administration in 2013 instituted a new hiring system that introduced a biographical questionnaire to attract minorities, underrepresented in the controller corps. The program was criticized, such as in a Fox News report in 2015, as making it harder for more skilled applicants to get hired as controllers.
But Trump, in his first term, left the policy in place, leading to a class-action lawsuit filed in 2019 by Mountain States Legal Foundation. The case was due to go to trial this year.
Moreover, the FAA under Trump in 2019 launched a program to hire controllers using the very criteria he decried at his news conference.
“FAA Provides Aviation Careers to People with Disabilities,” the agency announced on April 11, 2019. The pilot program, the announcement said, would “identify specific opportunities for people with targeted disabilities, empower them and facilitate their entry into a more diverse and inclusive workforce.”
The link under “targeted disabilities” is now dead, but the Wayback Machine retains links from June 2017 and January 2021 that show the page was unchanged during Trump’s tenure. The list included:
Hearing (total deafness in both ears)
Vision (Blind)
Missing Extremities
Partial Paralysis
Complete Paralysis, Epilepsy
Severe intellectual disability
Psychiatric disability
Dwarfism
The June 2019 webpage for the Aviation Development Program (ADP) — also now removed but still visible on the Wayback Machine — said the program “provides an opportunity for Persons with Targeted Disabilities (PWTD) to gain aviation knowledge and experience as an air traffic control student trainee.” Participants would get up to one year of experience in an Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC), with a possibility of getting a temporary appointment at the FAA Academy.
In August 2021, the FAA announced that one of the first three ADP candidates graduated from the FAA Academy and became an official air traffic control trainee. “Twelve candidates are in the pipeline for the ADP, pending completion of the clearance process,” the agency said. “Candidates must first pass the Air Traffic Skills Assessment (ATSA), followed by the security and medical clearance process.”
The announcement said the program was conceived when an air traffic manager met a quadriplegic student who had assumed he would never qualify to be a controller because of his condition. The FAA stressed that participants must meet the same qualifications as any other air traffic controller student.
A White House spokesman declined to comment.
The Pinocchio Test
Trump claimed that he had changed Obama’s criteria for hiring air traffic controllers with greater diversity — when in fact he left it unchanged. Moreover, he decried the fact that FAA hired controllers with a range of disabilities that he listed at the news conference. But that program was launched during his first term.
Four Pinocchios
Here are some facts:
In the aftermath of the deadly collision between a jetliner and a Black Hawk helicopter at Reagan National Airport, Trump held an extraordinary news conference during which he speculated on the cause of the accident. At length, he attacked former presidents Barack Obama and Joe Biden for imposing what he called “a big push to put diversity” that he said weakened the Federal Aviation Administration.
Reading from a 2024 Fox News report — which he incorrectly identified as being two weeks old — Trump listed conditions that he suggested disqualify people from being air traffic controllers: “hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability, and dwarfism.”
“Can you imagine?” he asked. “Brilliant people have to be in those positions, and their lives are actually shortened, very substantially shortened because of the stress.” He suggested that it was wrong for anyone with those conditions to qualify “for the position of a controller of airplanes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot, a little dot on the map, a little runway.”
But here’s the rub: During Trump’s first term, the FAA began a program to hire air traffic controllers with the conditions that Trump decried.
The facts
In the news conference, Trump said Obama weakened standards and “I changed the Obama standards from very mediocre at best, to extraordinary. … Then they changed it back — that was Biden.”
Trump’s claim was repeated in an executive order Trump signed Thursday that ordered a review of aviation safety: “During my first term, my Administration raised standards to achieve the highest standards of safety and excellence.”
That’s false. In his first term, Trump left the standards unchanged.
For air traffic controllers, the Obama administration in 2013 instituted a new hiring system that introduced a biographical questionnaire to attract minorities, underrepresented in the controller corps. The program was criticized, such as in a Fox News report in 2015, as making it harder for more skilled applicants to get hired as controllers.
But Trump, in his first term, left the policy in place, leading to a class-action lawsuit filed in 2019 by Mountain States Legal Foundation. The case was due to go to trial this year.
Moreover, the FAA under Trump in 2019 launched a program to hire controllers using the very criteria he decried at his news conference.
“FAA Provides Aviation Careers to People with Disabilities,” the agency announced on April 11, 2019. The pilot program, the announcement said, would “identify specific opportunities for people with targeted disabilities, empower them and facilitate their entry into a more diverse and inclusive workforce.”
The link under “targeted disabilities” is now dead, but the Wayback Machine retains links from June 2017 and January 2021 that show the page was unchanged during Trump’s tenure. The list included:
Hearing (total deafness in both ears)
Vision (Blind)
Missing Extremities
Partial Paralysis
Complete Paralysis, Epilepsy
Severe intellectual disability
Psychiatric disability
Dwarfism
The June 2019 webpage for the Aviation Development Program (ADP) — also now removed but still visible on the Wayback Machine — said the program “provides an opportunity for Persons with Targeted Disabilities (PWTD) to gain aviation knowledge and experience as an air traffic control student trainee.” Participants would get up to one year of experience in an Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC), with a possibility of getting a temporary appointment at the FAA Academy.
In August 2021, the FAA announced that one of the first three ADP candidates graduated from the FAA Academy and became an official air traffic control trainee. “Twelve candidates are in the pipeline for the ADP, pending completion of the clearance process,” the agency said. “Candidates must first pass the Air Traffic Skills Assessment (ATSA), followed by the security and medical clearance process.”
The announcement said the program was conceived when an air traffic manager met a quadriplegic student who had assumed he would never qualify to be a controller because of his condition. The FAA stressed that participants must meet the same qualifications as any other air traffic controller student.
A White House spokesman declined to comment.
The Pinocchio Test
Trump claimed that he had changed Obama’s criteria for hiring air traffic controllers with greater diversity — when in fact he left it unchanged. Moreover, he decried the fact that FAA hired controllers with a range of disabilities that he listed at the news conference. But that program was launched during his first term.
Four Pinocchios
FreestyleArt · 31-35, M
I think distractions are going to happen a lot. That's just my guess
nudistsueaz · 61-69, F
Probably never saw it.
BizSuitStacy · M
@SunshineGirl - riiiiight...libs never blame Trump for anything 🙄
ididntknow · 51-55, M
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