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Tim Walz Demands Major Change to the Constitution, Says “Electoral College Needs to Go”

“I think all of us know the Electoral College needs to go,” Walz said, according to Politico. “We need a national popular vote that is something. But that’s not the world we live in.”

Notably, Walz’s running mate, Vice President Kamala Harris, said that she is “open to the discussion” of doing away with the Electoral College during a 2019 appearance on “Jimmy Kimmel Live” while running for the White House in the 2020 race.

Whoopsie, it looks like someone just said the quiet part out loud!

Radical Democrats have been ranting against the Electoral College for years. They stepped up whining in 2016, after Trump defeated Hillary Clinton by winning the electoral vote but losing the popular vote. The only other president to do this was former President George W. Bush back in 2000, when he defeated the Democrat Al Gore.
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badminton · 61-69, MVIP
I 100% agree with Walz. The Electoral College is grossly undemocratic. One person, one vote is how a democracy should work. The EC has to go.

No other country has anything as ridiculous as the electoral college in their election systems.

"No taxation without representation!"
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@GerOttman Hey, I'm going to bed now... can't wait for your answer. Can't wait till I'm proven wrong and feel how much it sucks to discover the truth.
HobNoblin · 36-40, M
@badminton Other countries? This is America. Who cares what other countries do.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@HobNoblin sjjjjjt 🤫 @GerOttman is still thinking hard on explaining himself. Might be he abandoned the effort, mostly because he's unable to explain that he just says things, instead of thinking about what he says.
Walz is 100% correct on that matter.

The Founders never foresaw the kind of pandering that would applied to swing demographics in swing states and the way that pandering would warp our actual laws.

Many other nations adopted variations on the US Constitution, with two legislative chambers, three branches and an executive. Several (such as Chile, Columbia, & France) also adopted Electoral Colleges, and they all abandoned their ECs without harming their elections. The U.S. is the only democratic presidential system left that still uses an electoral college.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@ElwoodBlues Anyway, I'm off to bed. But you should really read up on Federalist papers 68 and 55. Espescially those founders that would today be considered early classical-liberals or early conservative-liberals, were very aware of demagogues that play on the passions (emotions) of people. Liberals often get criticized for pitching "rational individuals" vs Leviathan, in a way to extend their personal freedom. But even though liberals adore the rational individual, a lot of them were at least aware that masses are easily swayed by demagogues that play on emotions. That's why at least of 3 of them proposed that people don't vote for a president, but an elector. Those electors, need to be smart that are allowed to go against the masses if they get swayed by a demagogue.
@Kwek00 Very short answer: the Founders didn't live in or consider an era of giant corporations and regulatory capture.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@ElwoodBlues No... these guys read authors that looked at the classics. And some of them actually read the classics too. Aristotle, Plato, ... They all thought about democratic ideas and they all saw the dangers that "the few", that are better off in society, form inside a democratic system. An example that I was aware of, is again Adams who wrote too Thomas Jefferson concerning the subject of this problem he writes the following:

Our hopes however of Sudden tranquility ought not to be too Sanguine. Fanaticism and Superstition will Still be Selfish, Subtle, intriguing, and at times furious. Despotism will Still Struggle for domination; Monarchy will Still Study to rival nobility in popularity; Aristocracy will continue to envy all above it, and despize and oppress all below it; Democracy will envy all, contend with all, endeavour to pull down all; and when by chance it happens to get the Upper hand for a Short time, it will be revengefull bloody and cruel. These and other Elements of Fanaticism and Anarchy will yet for a long time continue a Fermentation, which will excite alarms and require Vigilance.

[...]

Some Parts of Some of his Dialogues are entertaining, like the Writings of Rousseau: but his Laws and his Republick from which I expected most, disappointed me most. I could Scarcely exclude the Suspicion that he intended the latter as a bitter Satyre upon all Republican Government,16 as Xenophon undoubtedly designed by his Essay on Democracy, to ridicule that Species of Republick. In a late letter to the learned and ingenious Mr Taylor of Hazelwood, I Suggested to him the Project of writing a Novel, in which The Hero Should be Sent upon his travels through Plato’s Republick, and all his Adventures, with his Observations on the principles and opinions, the Arts and Sciences, the manners Customs and habits of the Citizens Should be recorded. Nothing can be conceived more destructive of human happiness; more infallibly contrived to transform Men and Women into Brutes, Yahoos, or Dæmons than a Community of Wives and Property. Yet, in what, are the Writings of Rousseau and Helvetius wiser than those of Plato? “The Man who first fenced a Tobacco yard, and Said this is mine ought instantly to have been put to death” Says Rousseau. “The Man who first pronounced the barbarous Word ‘Dieu,’ ought to have been immediately destroyed,” Says Diderot.

In Short Philosophers antient and modern appear to me as mad as Hindoos, Mahomitans and Christians. No doubt they would all think me mad, and for any thing I know this globe may be, the bedlam, Le Bicatre of the Universe.

After all; as long as Property exists, it will accumulate in Individuals and Families, As long as Marriage exists, Knowledge, Property and Influence will accumulate in Families. Your and our equal Partition of intestate Estates, instead of preventing will in time augment the Evil, if it is one.

The French Revolutionists Saw this, and were So far consistent, When they burned Pedigrees and genealogical Trees, they annihilated, as far as they could, Marriages, knowing that Marriage, among a thousand other things was an infallible Source of Aristocracy. I repeat it, So sure as the Idea and the existence of Property is admitted and established in society, Accumulations of it will be made, the Snow ball will grow as it rolls.


- John Adams, Letter to Thomas Jefferson, 16th July 1814

SOURCE: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-02-02-6321


The word "Olicharchy" might not have been in use. But the concept that wealth snowballs wasn't foreign. And Adams expresses his fears here, that the limitless expansion (or snowballing) of property, will turn people into Brutes, Yahoos, or Daemons. And that property, will create a new form of Aristocracy (that he already saw as an issue with an oppressive nature in an earlier segment) through the institution of marriage. If you ever feel like reading the entire thing, the classics like: Plato, Cicero, Aristotle, ... are all mentioned here. The idea that wealth in the hands of the few, can be undermining for a democratic system, is not a new thing in the late 18th and early 19th century.

In other letter from 1813 Adams wrote too Jefferson:

I Should render the Greek into English thus.

Nor does a Woman disdain to be the Wife of a bad rich Man. But She prefers a Man of Property before a good Man. For Riches are honoured; and a good Man marries from a bad Family, and a bad Man from a good one. Wealth mingles all races.


[...]

Now, my Friend, who are the αρiςτοι.? Philosophy may Answer “The Wise and Good.”But the World, Mankind, have by their practice always answered, “the rich the beautiful and well born.” And Philosophers themselves in marrying their Children prefer the rich the handsome and the well descended to the wise and good.

What chance have Talents and Virtues in competition, with Wealth and Birth? and Beauty?


[...]

one truth is clear,; by all the World confess’d
Slow rises worth, by Poverty oppress’d.


The five Pillars of Aristocracy, are Beauty Wealth, Birth, Genius and Virtues. Any one of the three first, can at any time over bear any one or both of the two last.

Let me ask again, what a Wave of publick opinion, in favour of Birth has been Spread over the Globe, by Abraham, by Hercules, by Mahomet, by Guelphs, Ghibellines, Bourbons, and a miserable Scottish Chief Steuart? By Zingis by, by, by, a million others? And what a Wave will be Spread by Napoleon and by Washington? Their remotest Cousins will be Sought and will be proud, and will avail themselves of their descent. Call this Principle, Prejudice, Folly Ignorance, Baseness, Slavery, Stupidity, Adulation, Superstition or what you will. I will not contradict you. But the Fact, in natural, moral, political and domestic History I cannot deny or dispute or question.

And is this great Fact in the natural History of Man? This unalterable Principle of Morals, Philosophy, Policy domestic felicity, and dayly Experience from the Creation; to be overlooked, forgotten neglected, or hypocritically waived out of Sight; by a Legislator? By a professed Writer upon civil Government, and upon Constitutions of civil Government?



- John Adams, Letter to Thomas Jefferson, 2nd of September 1813

SOURCE: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/03-06-02-0374

These people may not have the vocabulary that we have today... but there was an awarness and a discussion of those that were aware of the issues of accumulation of wealth/property brings to a system of "equals" that vote for their own leaders.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
Well, he has a point 🤔
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Radical Democrats have been ranting against the Electoral College for years.

Having the party with the most votes control the government?

Shocking idea!
Musicman · 61-69, M
@Burnley123 Yep! And it won't be Harris.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Musicman Harris probably will get the most votes. The electoral college favour trump because of the inbuilt weighting of some states
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 Yup, the folks in Iowa are as deserving of representation as the folks in Florida
JSul3 · 70-79
When was the last time the Republicans won tbe popular vote in a presidential election?

Were the Democrats winning the EC, while the Repubs were winning the popular vote, the Repubs would be screaming to end the EC and saying the vast majority are being ruled my the minority.
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JSul3 · 70-79
@MarmeeMarch 2004....20 years ago.
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HobNoblin · 36-40, M
Walz needs to go. Let him move to China.
This message was deleted by its author.
AbbySvenz · F
See also: Adams in 1824, Hayes in 1876, and Harrison, in 1888
GuiltyBiStander · 31-35, F
Here's an idea for you :

Stop copying & pasting your thought program from some BS newsfeed, do some actual research, and learn some real history -


Oh, and that lameblame about "radical democrats" being behind this evil plot ?

Wrong.

Over 60% of voters, including independents & moderates, are tired of the vote & switch congame that's so "unique" to America :

sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@GuiltyBiStander I learned a long time ago, in a college statistics class, that "figures don't lie....but liars figure", to quote Abe Lincoln
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sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@GuiltyBiStander From this letter, published in The Daily Patriot (Harrisburg, Pennsylvania) of Saturday 17th August 1872:

CLEARFIELD COUNTY.
A United Democracy—Radical Lie Nailed—Prominent Liberals.

Correspondence of the Patriot.]

Clearfield, Pa., August 15, 1872.—Editors Patriot—Sirs: I have noticed in several of the Grant organs that there is a great deal of dissatisfaction among the democracy in this county by reason of the action of the Baltimore convention in endorsing Greeley. I write to assure our friends in other parts of the state that this report is another lie Granted unto us by these organs. The democracy of this county are too wide awake and too well organized not to act in concert with the wishes of their party expressed in a national convention. They are far-seeing enough to clearly discern that the support and endorsement of the ticket nominated at Baltimore is the only way to overthrow Grantism and the corrupt ring which rules our state government and maintain intact the organization of the party for future victories. Not only such leading and active democrats as Senator Wallace, Ex-Governor Bigler, Hon. G. R. Barrett, Hon. John Lawshe, Hon. T. J. Boyer, Hon. T. J. M’Cullough, G. B. Goodlander, Dr. R. V. Wilson, Israel Zeet, J. Blackwaters, and William M. M’Cullough, but the rank and file will cheerfully put their shoulders to the wheel and push along the “chariot of victory” recently started in North Carolina (for we claim and have the majority in that state notwithstanding their frauds and negro colonization—figures won’t lie, but liars will figure—and they are busy at it). As leading liberal republicans we have Hon. Alex. Irvine, S. B. Rowe, John M. Chase, William M’Bride, Captain Welch and a host of others who will make a stand up fight for the reform ticket. Clearfield will give Buckalew at least 1,600 majority in October, and for Greeley in November, oh! God count the “leaves in Valambrosa’s vale.”
Democrat.
joe438 · 61-69, M
As he said, he can be a knucklehead.
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