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Did I hear right? Trump wants to drop income taxes on tips?

Great idea!

I tend to think of a tip as a reward or incentive for being treated well. And unless I'm having a deductible business meal the $$ I'm paying as a tip is being paid with money I already pay income taxes on, so if I leave a $2 tip, both me and the person that I'm tipping are being taxed on that $2, and one of us being taxed for that $2 should be enough.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M Best Comment
Cutting taxes is not enough. He also has to cut spending by 80%
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@SandWitch you and history are complete strangers. Roosevelt was the president in 1941.
SandWitch · 26-30, F
@hippyjoe1955
As expected, you remain obtuse to what was written beyond the first line of text.

Why is that hippyjoe? Did Roosevelt's mentality strike a positive chord in you because you liked his style of withholding from others who were fighting for their lives and only getting involved if there was something in it for him?
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Heartlander · 80-89, M
@SandWitch

I marked Hippyjoe as best answer because I thought it was the best answer.

Taxes are a millstone around he neck of freedom. They undermine the people's choice of what they want to do with their money, which in many cases are superior to what government does with that money.

I just a few weeks ago watched a city commission meeting regarding the need for better workforce housing where it was needed, It was pointed out that apartment buildings funded by federal agencies cost twice as much as the same building would cost if developed by private developers. The cost difference is regulatory agency constraints. The money taxpayers send to Washington DC that come back to local communities lose 50% of their value in that transition, starting with cities that have to spend taxpayer monies just to compete and beg for DC to give them their money back.

For a simple cut to the chase, look at cities that are turning blighted areas into places where people want to live, look at cities that are bringing employers back to their core communities that were were abandoned 15+ years ago with the rush to the suburbs. The lure is tax incentive financing. They turn abandoned factories into workplaces by erasing the real estate tax burden so that new employers can focus on their business rather than on how they can pay their taxes. Tax policies that let businesses and individuals keep what they earn grows the economy. Those waiters and waitresses whose tips would go untaxed in turn get to put that money into other people's pockets, create more jobs, rather than go to Washington where that money loses 50% of its value. That's the essence of why repeated taxation on pass through monies is a horrible policy. It's why sales taxes are paid by retail establishments, and not the wholesalers, distributors and manufacturers. Make all of the above pay the sales tax and everything would be 30%+ more expensive, and with every entity along the chain having to pay that tax they would all be less able to afford it.
SandWitch · 26-30, F
@hippyjoe1955
The tax payers funded it. Not the government.

That is correct and you are repeating the essence of what I stated, but you are not understanding what I wrote.

I said...."The government funded the construction of highways and secondary roads through taxation and they maintain those same highways through funding from gasoline taxation".

The government doesn't have any money of it's own. The government gets money from taxation. Those who pay taxes to the government are called "tax payers".

The government then uses a percentage of total tax dollars collected annually to contract the building of those highways which WE as taxpayers then use to serve our needs.

Without taxation, your standard of living would be akin to that of a Third World nation.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@SandWitch the government took the tax payers money likely without permission. Governments are not Robin Hood and dilybteits like you have difficulty grasping that the less government the more freedom.
SandWitch · 26-30, F
@hippyjoe1955
You sound like a typical right-wing hard-liner with an axe to grind hippyjoe, but clearly you have no real purpose in life on which to grind that axe you carry to make things right for yourself and better for the world at large.

Instead, you attack government because they are the likely cause of your dysfunction in this lifetime, or at least they'll do as your fall-guy, for now at least, until you have more information supplied to you from your right-wing media sources who keep you informed.

Someone other than yourself must always be held responsible for your shortcomings in life hippyjoe and anyone will do, even the government will do, as long as the focus of your microscope doesn't ever come back to you.
I like it. After Seattle implemented the mandatory $15/hour minimum wage, people stopped tipping. Waiters/waitresses saw their take home pay go down. And, of course, fewer people are going out to restaurants, hurting the businesses, leading to reduced hours & layoffs.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
A demonocrat never met a tax he did not like
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@graphite :( 50 years ago I attended a Bob Dole townhall type meeting where someone raised the subject of how self employed people were being fuc--d over by the way the IRS favored employer paid health care insurance while forcing that 7% exclusion on medical expenses, etc. Dole agreed that it was horribly unfair. BUT (he said) that tax changes had to be revenue neutral. i.e. the government need to collect taxes was greater than the need to tax the people fairly. So there was the man at or very near the tip-top of the Republican party telling us that fairness was less important than politics or the government's need to take your money. That's the moment I became an independent.
graphite · 61-69, M
@Heartlander Republiwimps - Republicans who know what needs to be done but are afraid to do it - remain a problem to this day. But they need the support. GW Bush tried to move the failing Social Security system to the stock market, which always offers more money than how Social Security is run now. He was quickly skewered as touching the "third rail" of American politics and never accomplished what he wanted to do.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@graphite Bingo!!
exchrist · 31-35
Idk if they drop this tax where will it be made up for? If trump pays his back taxes maybe.
exchrist · 31-35
I agree its just government is so indebted bc of ongoing war the money needs to come from somewhere. Id hope they tax the wealthy more. Taxing minimum wage earners more isnt going to make much difference
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Heartlander you do realize the restaurant has already paid taxes on the raw products. Under your explanation that would be cut.
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@Heartlander So right on! It was just a few days ago that I calculated that although I pay approx 30% in Federal and Provincial taxes (I'm Canadian), that with 5% more for "Goods and Services Tax" (supposedly on imported items but NOT) and another 10% on Provincial Sales taxes on all goods except medical and food items, and then including property taxes and taxes on fuel,that I get to keep about 45% of the total amount of the money I earn. TIPS FOR GOOD SERVICE SHOULD BE TAX FREE!
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
If it is a genuine gratuity, yes. But increasingly tips are treated as a subsidy to a low wage. Making them tax deductible would give hospitality workers a tax advantage not enjoyed by other low paid workers, which is inequitable.

If this became law, there is in theory nothing to stop the restaurant charging the food at cost and making up the balance as a "tip".
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@SunshineGirl No tax breaks for the poor!
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@sunsporter1649 If higher earners paid taxes due rather than concealing their wealth there would be scope to increase the starting threshold to benefit all lower paid workers (not just waiting staff) which would have extensive economic and social benefit.

But of course any redistribution of wealth is Marxist . . 🙄
cherokeepatti · 61-69, F
That’s been the plan for the longest time. The USA was fine before the federal income tax was implemented. It has been used to finance the endless wars. There will be a flat tax but it doesn’t punish the small business owners and those who need to earn more money for their families etc. So it will encourage people that need the extra income. Also no flat tax on most used goods (or food) so it will help in an environmental way if people want to save money that way.
specman · 51-55, M
Good post! This makes for a good debate!
However, I don’t see why tips( someone’s income) should be treated differently than any other Income someone earns.
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
[@specman Well.... to differentiate: A tip (unless added to your bill automatically) is a gift. Now consider the things you look at when tipping: 1/ Is the person serving you already a millionaire?; 2/ Are they covered in expensive tattoos that show wanton spending?; 3/ Do they have a day career and are simply moonlighting? Or perhaps this is their third job today and they're trying to put a loaf of bread on the table for one or 2 children?
specman · 51-55, M
@JollyRoger unfortunately laws have to be abided no matter what their situation is.
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@specman Of course.... the reason for this post is to discuss whether the law is fair or might be looked at for changes.
Wages as a percentage of the economy only ever fall. The USA would only ever make you work more, no matter what the technology level is.
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
Why should tips be treated differently than any other income?
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@Heartlander employers will say tips are income.
So will tax people.
Good news for customer not so for employee
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@Heartlander But it is you has essentially decided that the tip is a "gift". If this is accepted in law, what is there to stop me from declaring that the money I give to the window cleaner, gardener, or any other person who performs a service for me without a formal employment contract, is also a "gift" rather than income.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@SunshineGirl I doubt that a window cleaner or Gardner would work for free. Waiters waitresses don't work for free, they get paid by their employer. That it's at a lower rate for some is a different mattered and unfair.

In general, taxable earned income for one person becomes untaxable for the person who pays it in wages. Subjecting tips to income tax breaks that rule because the person who pays the tip can't deduct it. Imagine the waiter who gets the tip also goes to eat at a restaurant and leaves a tip? Repeat that cycle a few times and taxes would exceed the amount of the tip. Taxes would exceed the value of the tip.
----

:) If I can add on, I don't know what window cleaners get paid, but I do know what gardeners, landscapers and housecleaners earn. The lady that did a few flower bed revitalizations sent a notice that her new rate, because of inflation, was $100 per hour. The tree trimmer spent 3 hours trimming back a couple of trees and charged $800. Accounting for his likely overhead expenses, and I would estimate that he was earning about $150 to $175 an hour. The house cleaners don't do as well, about $50 to $60 an hour based on what we pay them for the number of hours they are here. I didn't tip the gardener or tree trimmer, which maybe explains why the don't occasionally call to see if I have additional projects :)

I do however give occasional bonuses to the house cleaners, for Christmas and whenever I believe they extended above and beyond. Maybe it's partly why we are still their customer after 5 years.
akindheart · 61-69, F
yes i read that too.
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