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Liberal Democrats call on Biden to shift Ukraine strategy

More than two dozen liberal House members are calling on President Joe Biden to shift course in his Ukraine strategy and pursue direct diplomacy with Russia to bring the months-long conflict to an end.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/politics/congress-democrats-reaction-ukraine-strategy


we're closer to nuclear war now than we ever were with trump. time to fess up and realize that slow joe is a danger to the world.
EvilEmily · F
if russia stops fighting then the war ends... as easy as that. if ukraine stops fightign then ukraine ends...

so everythign but a complete russian retreat and agreement to reparations is unacceptable and will have to be enforced no matter the costs.
boudinMan · 61-69, M
@Northwest since google is such a challenge for you:

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nuclear-disarmament-rally-new-york-central-park
https://www.nps.gov/articles/antinuclearactivism.htm
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/ad-suggests-trump-loves-nuclear-war/

and here's a little more reagan material you might enjoy: https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spending/commentary/dismantling-liberal-myths-refresher-course-ronald-reagan

no, i never said the left was clamoring for nuclear war. what i said was the left always accuses republican presidents of clamoring for nuclear war, or that they will somehow lead us into nuclear war for some reason or another.

in reality, we're closer to armageddon now than we have been since the cuban missile crisis and i have no confidence in slow biden being able to navigate such treacherous waters.
Northwest · M
@boudinMan
since google is such a challenge for you:

It's more like you don't understand debate 101. You make the claim, you prove it. But ad hominem it away.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nuclear-disarmament-rally-new-york-central-park
https://www.nps.gov/articles/antinuclearactivism.htm
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/ad-suggests-trump-loves-nuclear-war/

And what's this supposed to prove? How does it support your claim that:

i just find it amusing how the left, with the aid of the media, clamors about nuclear war when there's a republican president, but not when there's a democrat in power. they did it to reagan and to trump... probably both bush's as well.

And this:

https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spending/commentary/dismantling-liberal-myths-refresher-course-ronald-reagan

??? It's a propaganda piece from the Heritage Foundation, pure fantasy. Reagan's arms race program, get us into a deficit so bad, we could not climb out of that financial pit.

no, i never said the left was clamoring for nuclear war.

Which is a lie, because this is exactly what you said.

Are you having trouble understanding that anti-nuke activists have always existed, and they don't go dormant, when we have a Democrat in the White House?

Are you having trouble understanding that no on on the left is clamoring for nuclear war, and that the current position of the Democrat Party, is to make it clear to Putin that a nuclear adventure in the Ukraine, is not going to be met with silence.

Are you having trouble understanding that if we don't take a clear position on this issue, there WILL be a nuclear war?

Are you having trouble understanding a simple children's book: If you give a moose a muffin?

But it's clear that you're having a problem with understanding.
@boudinMan Trump thanked his boyfriend Kim for letting him take a souvenir photo.
Northwest · M
Diplomacy has always been on the table, that's something the Administration made crystal clear to Putin.

Here's Putin's version: I want to discuss ending this war, just as soon as the West recognizes the annexation of the part of the Ukraine that Putin wants, and the replacement/jailing of the current Ukraine government. Then we'll talk.

He can threaten nuclear war as much as he wants, but as long as he understands that we're going to respond, and that part was made clear to him, there isn't going to be a nuclear option.

His only other strategy, is to use the likes of Tulsi Gabbard, and the same US public he reaches through our open social media, to scare everyone. This US administration is not going to blink. His other hope, is a GOP takeover in November, and that will end the war, when the MAGAs take over and bend over to Putin.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Northwest Putin and his bots on Saturday social media, including SW, are doing their best to call see chaos in the US, and change the long standing agreements to protect Europe from because mong engaged in another war over territory! Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and won't work in 2022.
we're closer to nuclear war now than we ever were with trump. time to fess up and realize that slow joe is a danger to the world.

Why can't Biden just suck off dictators like Trump did?!
@boudinMan It was clearly implied.
boudinMan · 61-69, M
@BohemianBabe by you, which makes it all the more ridiculous.
@boudinMan https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-trump/we-fell-in-love-trump-swoons-over-letters-from-north-koreas-kim-idUSKCN1MA03Q

You just don't want to admit that Trump is a human fleshlight for dictators.
Tracos · 51-55, M
pretty sure Biden is not the aggressor here, and I honestly have no idea what the situation would have been if Trump still would be president of the US.

diplomacy and violence are tightly connected in times of war, and I dont know what direct diplomacy means in this case. A sovereign state was invaded with massive loss of life and a massive effect on geo economics. what would be an acceptable diplomatic outcome where we as a global society do not accept violent conquests like this?
boudinMan · 61-69, M
@Tracos i don't know, maybe you should ask those democrats.
Tracos · 51-55, M
@boudinMan its a really vague letter.... it recognizes that everybody except Putin wants to engage in diplomacy, and yet:
In conclusion, we urge you to make vigorous diplomatic efforts in support of a negotiated
settlement and ceasefire, engage in direct talks with Russia, explore prospects for a new
European security arrangement acceptable to all parties that will allow for a sovereign and
independent Ukraine, and, in coordination with our Ukrainian partners, seek a rapid end to the
conflict and reiterate this goal as America’s chief priority.
TrashCat · M
Maybe, just maybe, if that lying traitor trump had been a better leader and not held back aid and help to Ukraine because he wanted them to help him with the mythicalHunter laptop, Donald's fck buddy wouldn't have become so emboldened. Grab your ankles chicken little.
@TrashCat NATO is bigger than the Whitehouse.
TrashCat · M
@Roundandroundwego But not as big as Trump's ass
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Lila15 · 22-25, F
If Putin uses a nuke, we will retaliate with conventional weapons. It’s not a nuclear war if only one side is using nukes. It’s a brilliant strategy as Putin knows if he crosses the line and we don’t respond in kind, Russia will be even more isolated. So we may be closer to a nuke being detonated but Biden is handling this much better than Trump would have.
Lila15 · 22-25, F
@boudinMan He was going to invade in 2020 but COVID stopped him.
boudinMan · 61-69, M
@Lila15 mmm-kay.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@boudinMan so your solution is to what, hand over Ukraine to Putin? Then what? Austria rolled over for Hitler is that what you think Ukraine should have done? What is your suggestion?
Liberals are suddenly realizing that Americans are sick of the billions of tax $$$ to Ukraine is a losing position? Gee, they catch on quick. Elon suggested peace talks and was placed on a Ukrainian kill list. And he about to complete the Twitter deal on Friday. Interesting.
@TrashCat Gee, they don't act like Americans. Maybe you can refer them to a good shrink, doc.
TrashCat · M
@BizSuitStacy How does an American act? Hiding topsecret documents in their closets and storming the capital because their favorite pork dumpling lost to sleepy joe? 😂 that's parhetic,bro
@TrashCat ooooo...top secret. What top secret docs you talkin' 'bout? The one's Bill Clinton kept in his sock drawer? The one's Obozo kept in the furniture warehouse? Maybe the one's Bush 43 stored at a car salvage business?
ViciDraco · 36-40, M
Is your position literally that Putin is threatening nukes so we should let him have his way? Will we take that track if North Korea goes after south Korea? Or China goes after Taiwan? Or Russia decides to not stop at Ukraine and decides they want Poland too?

You claim Joe Biden is putting the world in danger by helping a nation stand up to a bully. Do you actually somehow believe giving the bully your lunch money is going to make the world safer? Because if so, that is a pretty damn stupid belief.
PTCdresser57 · 61-69, M
Well said and true ViciDraco
boudinMan · 61-69, M
@ViciDraco i guess we should be the world police then.
ViciDraco · 36-40, M
@boudinMan if you don't understand the difference between lending aid to a nation being invaded by an aggressive neighbor and being world police, I can't help you.

I don't know if you fail to understand how international politics works, or if you are a paid propagandist.

The biggest failure here is that we let Russia get away with a slap on the wrist for Crimea.
PTCdresser57 · 61-69, M
Diplomacy has been on the table but Putin has no inclination to do it unless he gets his way. If the US and the rest of the world give into Putin...it will be WW2 all over again. Putin would just be another Hitler....and we know how that ended. If Russia would just go back home...war over. I see it ending one of 2 ways....Russia goes home or Ukraine beats them back.
@PTCdresser57 the USA didn't order Ukraine not to negotiate? Not even in April? Fiona Apple. Nothing. We know nothing.
TjNewton · M
Putin doesn't want to be diplomatic he is an evil little shit hell bent on cruelty and violence and you stand up to dictators not appease them
Biden is correct in everything he does for Ukraine as is all fellow Nato countries
boudinMan · 61-69, M
@TjNewton funny how you accept the real prospect of nuclear war now that a brain dead, decrepit old man with a D next to his name is running the show.
TjNewton · M
@boudinMan Keep talking shit i promise to yawn if i ever find you interesting
If we’re close to nuclear war, that’s on Putin. Biden has already said that we will not retaliate with nukes if Putin uses them first.

Putin didn’t invade when Traitor Tot was president as “no invasions” was one employee benefit he had. Since Biden isn’t a Russian employee like TFG, he doesn’t get that benefit.
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LegendofPeza · 56-60, M
Progressive House Democrats on Tuesday retracted their call for President Biden to engage in direct diplomatic talks with Russia to seek a cease-fire in Ukraine, a remarkable retreat that came less than 24 hours after they issued it.
@LegendofPeza they ran on no more war. They're hypocritical.
Tres13 · 51-55, M
Orders from the Swamp @LegendofPeza
Yeah, the strategy of appeasing dictator bullies worked SO WELL when Neville Chamberlain tried it in 1938, 😂🤣😂🤣
Heartlander · 80-89, M
The strategy should have been a total embargo, both buying and selling, including oil, to force Russia to sustain a cease fire and while negotiating with Ukraine, and the total embargo extended to any countries that violated the embargo,
@Heartlander what peaceful solution,? Nobody goes there. Shut up and war.
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
democrats don't want it to end, they'd love nothing more than to drag everyone into another world war. And as so long as the west ignores the corruption and indiscretions on both sides, it will continue...

and after europe is left a burning wreck (again), all the naïve idealists will be standing around scratching their heads wondering how this could happen...

how many times does history have to repeat itself before people learn from past mistakes? 🤔
TexChik · F
And mess up his laundry ( us tax dollars) service ? Not a chance !
So? You're actually shadow banned everywhere online if you question this war, it's supposed to last and expand -. Only Putin would question it.
Congress and the Senate are powerless to stop it.
LegendofPeza · 56-60, M
@Roundandroundwego 'two thirds of European people surveyed by the EU CFR are against arming Ukraine' - did you just make that up or are you peddling Russian disinformation ?

"74% of EU citizens approve of the European Union's support for Ukraine following Russia's invasion, according to the survey conducted between 12 October and 7 November 2022. In all EU Member States."

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221205IPR60901/eu-citizens-support-for-ukraine-is-solid-eurobarometer-survey-finds
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LegendofPeza · 56-60, M
Tres13 · 51-55, M
Surrender or Putin will destroy Ukraine
Penny · 46-50, F
well, i dont know much about whats going on but i get the feeling that what Russia is after is basically money. so any diplomacy would have to involve that right? helping Russia satisfy or fulfill their need for financial concerns. what kind of diplomacy would you suggest?
Ya think? Wow. Nobody expected America to admit "peace"could be a thing.
@Scribbles whatever! Our vote never counts. NATO rules Ukraine - people who want peace lost. Caring is not going to help stop NATO.
Scribbles · 36-40, F
@Roundandroundwego

You think peace can happen via a vote like it's an infrastructure bill? You think just because their is war that people do not crave peace? That they don't miss their homes, their destroyed cities. That they don't miss their neighbors, friends, and family? That they don't wonder who would have survived based on a million what ifs? You don't think Ukraine is the one sick of war more then Russia? Lol. That some Ukrainians are torn because they just want it to end?

There will be peace when Putin is overthrown/dead and Russia retreats. Stalin raped Ukraine. Ukraine will not let Putin do it too.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Roundandroundwego tell us all what you think NATO? Did it attack Russia. It was established as a defensive alignment. She nce Russia invaded Ukraine has the been a change in NATO? Have non-aligned countries joined to gain protection from Putin?
translation.
the american first republicans calling the shots arnt going to send any more money.
we need a new angle to keep the cash flowing...
FreestyleArt · 31-35, M
But do they really want it though....that's coming from NATO.


NATO is trying to be a Succubus for the Rest of Europe
BigBulge · 41-45, M
There's no dealing with Putin. He needs to be removed from office, any way possible.
Jayapal sounds like an idiot with this one.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/10/progressives-ukraine-biden-jayapal.html
@MistyCee don't cross the military industrial complex.
@BizSuitStacy Yeah, maybe, but blaming it on staff? That's unprofessional, even for bought and sold crooks.

Next thing you know, she'll claim she didn't know their name.
ViciDraco · 36-40, M
[media=https://youtu.be/xwmHqE19aZI]

It's a rare day that I agree with McConnell, but at least some Republicans get it.
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Scribbles · 36-40, F
@MarmeeMarch So you're saying that you're an arrogant ignorant dumbass who is commenting just because? and that Elessar is a smart cookie who bothers to learn history and know about global issues. If so, I agree. You are a very strange person, MarmeeMarch. 😂

In regards to your comments about World wars and Nato. I get it. But at the same time you realize that a line HAS to be drawn. The world can't let Putin do whatever the hell he wants to neighboring countries. It is not his business if a country not his own joins Nato. It is not cause for war.
Even though he has nukes and yes that's scary. That being said Russia's campaign has been a massive failure so far. You mention you support Russia and always will. Why do you support Russia? Why do you support Putin. You still haven't answered that. All you've said is that he is a leader and that he is bound to protect his land. So does every country in the world. Why Putin in particular?
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Scribbles · 36-40, F
Dang I wish I knew what he deleted. Lol

 
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