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Is Britain heading for (even) tougher times?

The Conservative government has recently announced a 'mini-budget' that gives sweeping tax cuts for corporations and high earners. The stated intention behind it is to increase growth on the supply side by attracting businesses and rewarding innovation:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/mini-budget-explained-kwasi-kwarteng-tax-cuts

This is highly unlikely to work and will likely fail even on its own terms. Trickle-down economics has been discredited time and time again whenever it and wherever it has been tried. Given low overall demand levels in the world economy (because many economies have problems) this is less likely to work than ever. Even if growth was created by these cuts then the likelihood would be that higher earners would save money or reinvest in property, further inflating our already very inflated housing market. The markets are not impressed and there has already been a mini-run on the pound as traders bet against the future of the UK economy.

To do this, our government has greatly increased our deficit. In recent history, our Conservatives were all committed deficit hawks and frequently attacked the left for wanting to spend more than the national income. Their latest solution is the worst of both worlds: it increases the national debt, whilst doing nothing to improve Britain's crumbling services and infrastructure. The US Republicans have done similar things in the past and with bad results. However, the damage of these policies was somewhat tempered by America's vast economic resources. When your currency is the world's reserve, then you can get away with a few mistakes.

High earners will do well, at least in the short term. Whereas poor or middle-income people will continue to feel the crush of Britain's major cost of living crisis. This is a bit like a fire engine, driving past a fire to drop a bottle of wine off at a house up the street.

I think the policies of Kwateng and Truss will run into big problems and they will try to bail things out with further cuts to our already underfunded services. They are trying to make it harder for unionised workers to go on strike, which reveals the raw class nature of their policies. Strap in.
Philth · 46-50, M Best Comment

SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
If you really want to stimulate economic growth, put money in the pockets of the poorest 25% (preferably through means tested benefits). They are most likely to spend the money immediately on a variety of essential goods and services, creating a virtuous circle of growth, increasing tax receipts and relieving relative poverty. The wealthy will either save or invest the additional money in real estate which will have few positive effects on the rest of the economy.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@SunshineGirl I'm generally in favour of universal benefits rather than means-tested ones. But, on the main point, I completely agree.
Abstraction · 61-69, M
'Trickle-down economics is code for trickle-up economics,' (John Clarke).

Similar in Australia where our new Labor government are still pushing through the tax cuts for the wealthy that the conservatives had talked about because they said they included it in the election promises. I assure you, nobody who voted for them was thinking about this and wants them to pour billions of dollars into the hands of the wealthy. I'm not sure anyone was aware they had made it a 'promise'. But they have to pay the piper. We can only have decent government when minorities not beholden to big interests hold the balance of power. Almost happened here - missed it by one member.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/23/liz-truss-power-extreme-neoliberal-thinktanks
So... the thinktanks for the wealthy have decided on tax cuts at the moment it appears.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@Abstraction Do not take anything as gospel until the October budget... Labor has the almost perfect excuse to pull those cuts IF they can show a reason why to the people...Sure it was a promise.. But it was not policy for labor in the first place..And they just have to cry "New direction" and enough people will follow..😷
Abstraction · 61-69, M
@whowasthatmaskedman I heard from my local member just today who is Labor and her reply suggests they will review these cuts and make a decision. Not a fan of the potential of watering down ICAC also. I'm hoping for good things from this government but watching closely.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@Abstraction I feel similar. But like a certain other nation with a certain other replaced leader, I think just getting rid of the old is itself a good first step. And it does concern me any time the guy in charge is more concerned about the next life than how people are going to fare in this one. Believe me I am playing nice about our right at this point. I am sure Labor will get things wrong. But not so much or so deliberately..😷
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
Yeah this is just a mass looting of what's left of the economy. There very well may be an initial burst of economic activity as the UK advertises itself as a ripe place to set up shop but that shit runs out of steam very fast and you're just left with runaway poverty.
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@CountScrofula

Deep dive economic analysis from Grace Blakely about the crisis of capitalism:

[media=https://youtu.be/E0vf7aHy-LE]

It's at 8-30 mins on the vid and worth watching and with relevance outside the UK.
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@Burnley123 Cool I'll check er out.
LegendofPeza · 56-60, M
What they have done is so audacious , and incoherent , that it's difficult not to suspect that they are deliberately pursuing a scorched earth policy because they already know they are getting turfed out at the next election.

It's absolutely mind-blowing , and that's not hyperbole.
Bring back the workhouse... at least those who can't afford a place to live will still have a roof over their heads.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@HootyTheNightOwl Give the Tories time. This was only a mini-budget.

/s
@Burnley123 At least we'll have a use for some of those "Nightingale wards" - though probably under Dr Banardo's name next...
alan20 · M
Brexit was reminiscent of a yearning to get back to the days of the Empire. Truss is going one better : back to a feudal society.
Northwest · M
Trickle down economics, with a supply/demand twist. How creative. That's because corporations and high-net individuals are capable of snapping their fingers, and making the supply problem disappear. Unless by that, they mean that China will give them preference when precessing their future orders?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Northwest Yes, it's ridiculous

They think that undercutting the EU on corporation and income tax will attract investment. AND presumably enough investment to compensate for the revenue lost in terms of tax intake. All the economic modelling says that this is BS and the markets are already bet against this working.

I'm generally against using the market as the be-all and end-all but this does demonstrate that the Tories have a political agenda outside of and to the right of capitalist pragmatism!

To give you some insight into our recent political history: under Corbyn and even under Ed Miliband, Labour was frequently and heavily attacked for an alleged lack of economic pragmatism though Labour never had spending pledges that were this uncosted or involved borrowing for 'day-to-day' spending. Also, those policies would have brought tangible benefits to a lot more people. The media reaction against Kwateng and Truss has been negative but not nearly as negative as it should be.
Northwest · M
@Burnley123 This is not unlike the GOP agenda, which consists of accusing the Democrats of lacking economic pragmatism, while offering nothing more than "trickle down" in return. The GOP is so lazy, they don't even mention trickle down in their ads, they just say "we have a plan". Huh?
Uhohuhoh · 51-55, C
It's a disgrace. Even they must know it won't work . Only explanation is they know they only have two years and will not be re-elected so making hay for their donors while they can with a side 'benefit' to them of leaving the next labour government with an eye watering debt to kick off with . To think they ram their faux patriotism down our throats yet here they are again ruining our country for political gain . Again.
Uhohuhoh · 51-55, C
@Burnley123 your naive if you think they really believe it will ultimately benefit everyone fairly . They know what they are doing . When they say they believe in small government I just wish interviewers would say 'where will the cuts be then?'
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Uhohuhoh
your naive if you think they really believe it will ultimately benefit everyone fairly

I'm not naive. As I implied in my post: what they are doing is class warfare.

For class warfare to be successful, you can't call it class warfare and you also need people practising it on the side of the ruling class to believe that what they are doing is in the 'national interest'. For example, Margaret Thatcher genuinely did believe in what she was doing and so do Truss and Kwateng. The right of the Tory party produced a book called 'Britainia Unchained' about a decade ago that outlined all of this. They've drunk their own Kool-Aid.

Though clearly, their motives are a secondary issue to the damage done.
Uhohuhoh · 51-55, C
@Burnley123 I said you are naive if.....

I know about the book . Everything they say and do is just to climb the greasy pole . Money people are behind them . Go look at the 'think tanks' and find out who funds them . Truss is a nobody
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
The British government is now caught between a rock and a hard place. And this applies to which ever party is in power. The Brexit decision may well turn out to have been the right one, for all the wrong reasons. The continental Europe issues have a long way to play out with both Russia and the middle east, plus Covid and the economic mess that caused.. We do indeed live in interesting times.. As bad as things will undoubtedly be in Britain. They may indeed be worse in Europe, for longer.. So lets not be the person complaining about having no shoes when the person next to you has no legs..😷
smiler2012 · 56-60
{@burnley123] 😆 now come on does that not surprise you in the slightest . all this is a veiled guise too fool us by truss it is good too help business and people with aspirations . all this boils down too typical tories looking after there own by giving them tax breaks
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@smiler2012 Of course I'm not surprised. I specifically predicted that this would happen with my posts on here!
Elessar · 26-30, M
This is highly unlikely to work and will likely fail even on its own terms. Trickle-down economics has been discredited time and time again whenever it and wherever it has been tried.
It fails for us. It definitely doesn't feel like a failure for politicians that get sponsored by the people they bail out.

The right could stop calling itself "capitalist", and embrace the term "neo-feudal" perhaps 😅
alan20 · M
@Elessar It was a blatant attempt to win the leadership votes of her fellow reactionary Tories. I doubt if she even believes it.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@alan20 Starmer win the labour leadership by pretending to be centre left and then immediately abandoned all ten of his pledges. I didn't vote for Starmer but I harboured sone hope that he wouldn't be quite as shit as he is.

Fair play to Truss at least for following through on her promises.
deadgerbil · 26-30
I find it crazy how people who are barely getting by think that trickle down economics will help them. Similar to the states where some impoverished redneck, one medical emergency away from financial ruin, thinks billionaires and huge corporations are on their side.
Asshats in government, part 457!

It didn't work here under Reagan.

I'd thought that the British knew their history better than Americans...

I guess it's

a) economic history, and
b) not about the glory of the Roman^H^H^H^H^HBritish Empire

so not the same.
supersnipe · 61-69, M
Not the best. There have been 'dashes for growth' in the past, based on this kind of thinking. The Anthony Barber experiment of 50 years ago springs to mind. Nice boost to inflation, pound floated, we know the rest.
Sazzio · 31-35, M
UK Should stop beating around the bush and state we're in 3rd World Country due to Labour party pre 2008.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Sazzio LOL.

I know you are gently trolling me but I wouldn't be that surprised if Truss said that.
Starcrossed · 41-45, F
I think globally, every single one of us is heading for tougher times.
No kidding. Oppression and precarity, American style.
Barny52 · 56-60, M
Trickle down won’t work we need to trickle up , grow from the roots !
Philth · 46-50, M
Tories. Cnuts. That is all.
AntisocialTroll · 56-60, F
We're fucked.
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
Like Reagan! Good times…
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Fukfacewillie Oh they did and we live in a world that they made. Though some think that it didn't go far enough. I thought you'd get the Ricky Gervais reference...
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
@Burnley123 From Extras! Loved that one. At least you still have the Falklands thanks to the Iron Lady. Maradona got the last laugh, though.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Fukfacewillie Yeah we still own a tiny island chain off the coast of... Argentina. #WorthIt

Yeah, the 'Hand of God' incident is still talked about here. Before my time but Maradona was one hell of a player. He had problems aplenty but in 1986, nobody could get near him. Not even Peter Shilton reaching for a cross!
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Darksideinthenight2 Yeah, but there are degrees of being f***ed.
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@msros Modi is awful on every level. He's an order of magnitude worse than Trump.

I don't know how I'd describe his project: Hindu fascist neoliberalism?

 
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