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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Never.
Martin Luther King had a -75% approval rating before he died. At the time, he was actually seen as a radical leftist by the mainstream. Now his support is near-universal because he was on the right side of history.
The people who attack BLM and trans rights activists also tacitly support the gains made by the civil rights movement and a lot even support gay rights equality. However, they also think that this time it is different.
This new fad of extreme radical leftism in which universities are corrupting the youth and destroying society blah blah.
It's all been said many times before. People who say this kind of thing have no historical self-awareness. They also have no understanding of how struggles of the past (that their past equivalents opposed) gained so many of the things that they now take for granted.
Martin Luther King had a -75% approval rating before he died. At the time, he was actually seen as a radical leftist by the mainstream. Now his support is near-universal because he was on the right side of history.
The people who attack BLM and trans rights activists also tacitly support the gains made by the civil rights movement and a lot even support gay rights equality. However, they also think that this time it is different.
This new fad of extreme radical leftism in which universities are corrupting the youth and destroying society blah blah.
It's all been said many times before. People who say this kind of thing have no historical self-awareness. They also have no understanding of how struggles of the past (that their past equivalents opposed) gained so many of the things that they now take for granted.
@Burnley123
Yeah that seems to be the pattern.
After they've lost the battle and (for example) gay people have the right to marry, most conservative people get on board with that but then the idea of transgenders is a bridge too far....well we'll see i guess lol
Yeah that seems to be the pattern.
After they've lost the battle and (for example) gay people have the right to marry, most conservative people get on board with that but then the idea of transgenders is a bridge too far....well we'll see i guess lol
Social conservatism in the United States is a political ideology focused on the preservation of traditional values and beliefs. it changes by the children one generation at a time. its slow. and in some areas its even slower.. texas the last time a black was dragged by a chain behind a truck till he fell apart was in the 1998. and that was not long ago..
https://mynbc15.com/news/local/white-supremacist-who-dragged-black-man-behind-truck-will-be-executed-this-week
the men felt entitled to do so .. it was there right as a white man. THAT WAS 24 YEARS AGO
In the early morning hours of June 7, 1998, three white men beat Byrd after offering him a ride. They then chained the 49-year-old to the back of a truck and dragged his body for nearly 3 miles along a secluded road in the piney woods outside Jasper. Byrd was alive for at least two miles before his body was ripped to pieces. Prosecutors said he was targeted because he was black.
was this what you wanted to know?
woke is a good thing.
Woke is an English adjective meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination" that originated in African-American
https://mynbc15.com/news/local/white-supremacist-who-dragged-black-man-behind-truck-will-be-executed-this-week
the men felt entitled to do so .. it was there right as a white man. THAT WAS 24 YEARS AGO
In the early morning hours of June 7, 1998, three white men beat Byrd after offering him a ride. They then chained the 49-year-old to the back of a truck and dragged his body for nearly 3 miles along a secluded road in the piney woods outside Jasper. Byrd was alive for at least two miles before his body was ripped to pieces. Prosecutors said he was targeted because he was black.
was this what you wanted to know?
woke is a good thing.
Woke is an English adjective meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination" that originated in African-American
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@markansas
Too many people are so resistant to accepting things they didn't grow up with and too many people take that discomfort too far. As you say, men like Trump help stoke that hatred and make those people feel validated in their hatred of social acceptance and progression.
But i suppose that we're still progressing rather than regressing so that is comforting.
Too many people are so resistant to accepting things they didn't grow up with and too many people take that discomfort too far. As you say, men like Trump help stoke that hatred and make those people feel validated in their hatred of social acceptance and progression.
But i suppose that we're still progressing rather than regressing so that is comforting.
@Pikachu i will not see it in my life time .. maybe my grand children will. there will always be hate.. and we have not even started to talk about the native Americans yet. and manifist destiny.. which was the death of the tribes and there land. by the trail of tears.
The Trail of Tears was a series of forced displacements of approximately 60,000 American Indians of the "Five Civilized Tribes" between 1830 and 1850 by the United States government. Part of the Indian removal, the ethnic cleansing was gradual, occurring over a period of nearly two decades. At Least 15000 Native Americans Died on the Trail of Tears
https://www.britannica.com/event/Trail-of-Tears
so white man used this as a excuse.. manifest destiny
Manifest Destiny, a phrase coined in 1845, is the idea that the United States is destined—by God, its advocates believed—to expand its dominion and spread democracy and capitalism across the entire North American continent.
DONT get me wrong i love the usa . there is part of it i just dont like.
The Trail of Tears was a series of forced displacements of approximately 60,000 American Indians of the "Five Civilized Tribes" between 1830 and 1850 by the United States government. Part of the Indian removal, the ethnic cleansing was gradual, occurring over a period of nearly two decades. At Least 15000 Native Americans Died on the Trail of Tears
https://www.britannica.com/event/Trail-of-Tears
so white man used this as a excuse.. manifest destiny
Manifest Destiny, a phrase coined in 1845, is the idea that the United States is destined—by God, its advocates believed—to expand its dominion and spread democracy and capitalism across the entire North American continent.
DONT get me wrong i love the usa . there is part of it i just dont like.
Abstraction · 61-69, M
Oddly, it doesn't matter what the topic for conservatives in my country,
- science is distrusted, discredited and ignored;
- implement policies n ways that inevitably increase wealth of the mega-wealthy without helping the poor, the battlers, the outcasts who are treated without dignity and blamed for their situation;
- Oppose wage rises, block rises in pensions, unemployment or other safety nets for the most vulnerable in the country, whilst persecuting them with falsified 'debts', 3-5 hour phone queues to talk to govt agencies about why their income has been cut cold.
- oppose climate change legislation and coincidentally do things like a 'gas led recovery' implemented by a gas company executive appointed to head up the climate change working group;
- Oppose everything the indigenous people wanted and treated them in the most patronising manner (cashless debit card fiasco for example)
I mean I could write and write here... But Rupert Murdoch supports their misinformation campaign based on fear about taxes, hordes of immigrants, etc to get them re-elected.
- science is distrusted, discredited and ignored;
- implement policies n ways that inevitably increase wealth of the mega-wealthy without helping the poor, the battlers, the outcasts who are treated without dignity and blamed for their situation;
- Oppose wage rises, block rises in pensions, unemployment or other safety nets for the most vulnerable in the country, whilst persecuting them with falsified 'debts', 3-5 hour phone queues to talk to govt agencies about why their income has been cut cold.
- oppose climate change legislation and coincidentally do things like a 'gas led recovery' implemented by a gas company executive appointed to head up the climate change working group;
- Oppose everything the indigenous people wanted and treated them in the most patronising manner (cashless debit card fiasco for example)
I mean I could write and write here... But Rupert Murdoch supports their misinformation campaign based on fear about taxes, hordes of immigrants, etc to get them re-elected.
LegendofPeza · 56-60, M
@Abstraction Rupert Murdoch has to be one of the most odious and malevolent characters in recent modern history. Incredibly he was allowed to export his poison from Australia first to Britain and then to the US , and that should shame all of us. Without him , Thatcher would probably never have gone on for so long , inflicting privation and misery on so many , and possibly the UK wouldn't have embarked upon its greatest ever folly by leaving the EU without the support of his newspapers. Neither would there have been a Trump Presidency with all the hell that it unleashed.
The fact that we now live in a world where facts don't matter and populists , fabulists and fascists are provided a platform for their abhorrent views simply because it makes him money is cause for near despair.
Maybe the Alex Jones judgement , or the lawsuits by Dominion against Fox will mark the beginning of a backlash against this type of behaviour , but still I'm not that confident. I imagine these conmen will carry on doing what they do , just being a little more careful from now on the way they tiptoe around the law.
The fact that we now live in a world where facts don't matter and populists , fabulists and fascists are provided a platform for their abhorrent views simply because it makes him money is cause for near despair.
Maybe the Alex Jones judgement , or the lawsuits by Dominion against Fox will mark the beginning of a backlash against this type of behaviour , but still I'm not that confident. I imagine these conmen will carry on doing what they do , just being a little more careful from now on the way they tiptoe around the law.
Abstraction · 61-69, M
@LegendofPeza That's a good summary. You might understand me then when I say I can't think of anyone who damaged society in these countries, and democracy, more than he has. He has caused it to rot.
deadgerbil · 26-30
Social conservatism has a dismal track record, but that doesn't matter to its proponents, who are utterly inept at understanding anything historical
You'll see this when conservatives deny party realignment/the party switch, so as to claim the modern day republican party is that of Lincoln, even though they literally fly the Confederate flag
Look at these proud conservatives taking a stand against CoMmuNisM lol
You'll see this when conservatives deny party realignment/the party switch, so as to claim the modern day republican party is that of Lincoln, even though they literally fly the Confederate flag
Look at these proud conservatives taking a stand against CoMmuNisM lol
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CopperCicada · M
By definition, conservatism aims to preserve traditional social institutions and practices. Historically there have been, and currently are, conservatives who would really quite bluntly admit that people of color, women, and LGBT people should not have the rights that they do. Why? Because of traditional attitudes and practices.
But the thing is, conservatism isn’t monolithic, and people make choices as to which social institutions, values, practices, etc., should be preserved. And how they should be preserved. Liberal (in the economic sense) conservatives and libertarian conservatives are really not worried about people’s sexual lives and can be liberal/libertarian conservatives without being socially or religiously conservative. It’s also possible to be a social or religious conservative and spend a lot of time thinking about family and sexual mores, but not particularly be economically and politically conservative in the liberal or libertarian sense.
And it’s also possible to be a progressive conservative. To be socially progressive while being fiscally and politically conservative. Teddy Roosevelt was a good example of this. Truth— a lot of our “left” in America are really progressive conservatives. We’ve just recalibrated so far. Why? Because they advocate change. Just not so faaaaaaast …
But the thing is, conservatism isn’t monolithic, and people make choices as to which social institutions, values, practices, etc., should be preserved. And how they should be preserved. Liberal (in the economic sense) conservatives and libertarian conservatives are really not worried about people’s sexual lives and can be liberal/libertarian conservatives without being socially or religiously conservative. It’s also possible to be a social or religious conservative and spend a lot of time thinking about family and sexual mores, but not particularly be economically and politically conservative in the liberal or libertarian sense.
And it’s also possible to be a progressive conservative. To be socially progressive while being fiscally and politically conservative. Teddy Roosevelt was a good example of this. Truth— a lot of our “left” in America are really progressive conservatives. We’ve just recalibrated so far. Why? Because they advocate change. Just not so faaaaaaast …
@CopperCicada
Well you're quite right about the various ways one can be liberal or conservative which is why is specified the social arena.
lol i'm not sure how true that is or not in this day and age. I feel like it's more a position in opposition to "wokeness" than it is a position in and of itself.
But as for the question posed in this thread, what do you think? Has social conservatism more often on the right or wrong side of human well-being?
Well you're quite right about the various ways one can be liberal or conservative which is why is specified the social arena.
Because they advocate change. Just not so faaaaaaast …
lol i'm not sure how true that is or not in this day and age. I feel like it's more a position in opposition to "wokeness" than it is a position in and of itself.
But as for the question posed in this thread, what do you think? Has social conservatism more often on the right or wrong side of human well-being?
CopperCicada · M
@Pikachu I’m pretty much opposed to everything social and religious conservatives are for politically.
Also, in their defense, I think a lot of progressives have lost their fucking minds.
Also, in their defense, I think a lot of progressives have lost their fucking minds.
@CopperCicada
lol it absolutely can get out of hand which is why i do think there is a place fo social conservatives. There has to be some pushback to make sure that a society doesn't just accept anything at face value.
lol it absolutely can get out of hand which is why i do think there is a place fo social conservatives. There has to be some pushback to make sure that a society doesn't just accept anything at face value.
room101 · 51-55, M
Every. Damned. Time!
Approx 2,500 years ago, the Ancient Greeks abandoned the idea of doing what their predecessors/ancestors did. Instead, they began to look forward, to be innovative, to be progressive.
Time to learn yet another lesson from the Ancient Greeks...........yeah, I get the irony🤷♂️🤦♂️
Approx 2,500 years ago, the Ancient Greeks abandoned the idea of doing what their predecessors/ancestors did. Instead, they began to look forward, to be innovative, to be progressive.
Time to learn yet another lesson from the Ancient Greeks...........yeah, I get the irony🤷♂️🤦♂️
summersmiles · 51-55, F
They seem to want everything to always be the same generation to generation. No progress, no advancement. No bettering ourselves or our world. They want perpetual early 20th century.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@summersmiles With parts of previous centuries thrown in. Like the 18th and 19th..😷
summersmiles · 51-55, F
@whowasthatmaskedman that's true
I had to make it early 20th century because of their insistence that we never go beyond oil energy and the internal combustion engine.
I had to make it early 20th century because of their insistence that we never go beyond oil energy and the internal combustion engine.
Problem is social conservatives think that owning slaves and women and oppressing gay people IS a good thing. That's why they keep fighting for it. Even with a near 100% social failure rate.
In that case it always a matter of gatekeeping and moving the goal posts.
"If only we can oppress these final people all suffering would cease. If only those people were more Christian Jesus would come back. Etc..."
Utopia is always just over the next oppression.
In that case it always a matter of gatekeeping and moving the goal posts.
"If only we can oppress these final people all suffering would cease. If only those people were more Christian Jesus would come back. Etc..."
Utopia is always just over the next oppression.
@canusernamebemyusername
It is startling that there remain people who still advocate for such ideas.
But even most socially conservative people (at least in most western and/or developed nations) accept things like gay rights, blacks as citizens and women as equal to men...and that's a result of social liberalism prevailing.
It is startling that there remain people who still advocate for such ideas.
But even most socially conservative people (at least in most western and/or developed nations) accept things like gay rights, blacks as citizens and women as equal to men...and that's a result of social liberalism prevailing.
@Pikachu Yeah. Any socially liberal progress that then becomes normalized over time they will then co-op and try to claim credit for. Like Lincoln freeing the slaves they think has anything to do with modern republicanism. Or how Hinduism claims they where the first to discover the multiverse. Or Judaism was the first to discover genetics cause of that sticks and goat story.
Actually you do find that co-oping a lot in religion. Probably cause religion has generally been the single largest conservative monolith for millennia.
Actually you do find that co-oping a lot in religion. Probably cause religion has generally been the single largest conservative monolith for millennia.
@canusernamebemyusername
lol someone in this thread has already attempted to deploy that red herring.
Like Lincoln freeing the slaves they think has anything to do with modern republicanism.
lol someone in this thread has already attempted to deploy that red herring.
They were right about the importance of physical fitness for society. In the history of far right idelogies, specifically fascism, athleticism was always valued as q must and a requirement for society. Study after study confirms that this is legit. The left literally are anti body shaming against morbidly obese bodies which result totally as a result of lifestyle choices.
With all the science out about the positive affects of fitness on emotional, mental, and physical health, the fascist were correct in their advicacy of the youth developing athletic prowess.
With all the science out about the positive affects of fitness on emotional, mental, and physical health, the fascist were correct in their advicacy of the youth developing athletic prowess.
@Pikachu I made no such assertion? Gay rights ARE societies progressive. My point was that tge standards you use to exlude the fascists stance on fitness as right, would be use to exclude something you know to be stochastic progressive as such.
Bro, you need to read back. You are very confused, about pretty much everything.
I do grasp the difference. We can portray fat people positively, adhd that's fine. But that isn't the same as portraying fat IN people positively. You said we need positive representation of unhealthy body types, not people with unhealthy bodies. That's like saying we need positive represenation of blackened lungs from smoking
Bro, you need to read back. You are very confused, about pretty much everything.
I do grasp the difference. We can portray fat people positively, adhd that's fine. But that isn't the same as portraying fat IN people positively. You said we need positive representation of unhealthy body types, not people with unhealthy bodies. That's like saying we need positive represenation of blackened lungs from smoking
@BRUUH
I'm not getting this. Could you perhaps rephrase?
Yeah...well it seem like we're agreeing on that. But i'm not sure how this is an example of something social conservatism got right and social liberalism got wrong?
I'm sorry if that's what i conveyed to you because what i was attempting to communicate was the inverse of that statement.
We need positive representation of people with unhealthy bodies, not positive representation of unhealthy body types
My point was that tge standards you use to exlude the fascists stance on fitness as right, would be use to exclude something you know to be stochastic progressive as such.
I'm not getting this. Could you perhaps rephrase?
We can portray fat people positively, adhd that's fine. But that isn't the same as portraying fat IN people positively.
Yeah...well it seem like we're agreeing on that. But i'm not sure how this is an example of something social conservatism got right and social liberalism got wrong?
[quote] You said we need positive representation of unhealthy body types, not people with unhealthy bodies
[/quote]I'm sorry if that's what i conveyed to you because what i was attempting to communicate was the inverse of that statement.
We need positive representation of people with unhealthy bodies, not positive representation of unhealthy body types
@Pikachu I can rephrase it later but i gotta do some shit real quick.
If you agree with me overall then we are good.
I don't think it is an example of something social liberalism got wrong per se. Just kinda something social conservatism got right, or at least the far right got correct. I think eugenics, fascism, and nazism are correct to herold an athletic body type for a goid society, and encourage athleticism, even to the point of stigmatizing deconditioning. Even if someone is a nerd lets say, studies even show it improves brain function. I think fascism is based... on this one topic.
But just for the record, american conservatives are often so far from an ubermench its laughable. Nick fuentes is a alt right fascist dude... who is also a video game addicted un masculine individual; like everything Adolf feared the Jew would condition young white men to become.
If you agree with me overall then we are good.
I don't think it is an example of something social liberalism got wrong per se. Just kinda something social conservatism got right, or at least the far right got correct. I think eugenics, fascism, and nazism are correct to herold an athletic body type for a goid society, and encourage athleticism, even to the point of stigmatizing deconditioning. Even if someone is a nerd lets say, studies even show it improves brain function. I think fascism is based... on this one topic.
But just for the record, american conservatives are often so far from an ubermench its laughable. Nick fuentes is a alt right fascist dude... who is also a video game addicted un masculine individual; like everything Adolf feared the Jew would condition young white men to become.
Dainbramadge · 56-60, M
Ah Black folks not being property????
You think that was a liberal???
That liberal Abe Lincoln??
Also:
"It was on May 21st of 1919, just six months after the end of the first World War, that the Republican lead House of Representatives passed the re-introduced 19th Amendment by a vote of 304 to 89 (91% of Republicans, 59% of Democrats)."
You think that was a liberal???
That liberal Abe Lincoln??
Also:
"It was on May 21st of 1919, just six months after the end of the first World War, that the Republican lead House of Representatives passed the re-introduced 19th Amendment by a vote of 304 to 89 (91% of Republicans, 59% of Democrats)."
Dainbramadge · 56-60, M
@Pikachu But don't the political parties represent the views of the people who voted them into office???
How else are you going to compare????
How else are you going to compare????
@Dainbramadge
Well yes they do.
But does the fact that democrats today tend to be more socially liberal than republicans mean that in the past this was always so?
Of course not.
So what's the point talking about parties rather than the actual subject?
Well yes they do.
But does the fact that democrats today tend to be more socially liberal than republicans mean that in the past this was always so?
Of course not.
So what's the point talking about parties rather than the actual subject?
OggggO · 36-40, M
@Dainbramadge Yes, Abe Lincoln was in fact a liberal. Please learn the barest bones of history before you talk about it.
The term "wokism" isn't that clear though. I see how it can be used by people attached to their social privileges in relation to their class, gender, education, origins...but naming and shaming can also be used in a petty and childish way to stigmatise strangers or present problems in a Manichean kind of way.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@EarthlingWise The term "Woke" only exists because Americans do not have the attention span to get to the end of the phrase "Cultural and Social Empathy" without losing interest.😷
@whowasthatmaskedman The term itsellf is actually nice, if indeed it is applied in an earnest way.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@EarthlingWise Dont get me wrong. I believe in the idea of an awakening to social and cultural advancement. Its just its dumbing down to a four letter word and misappropriation as a negative I dont like..😷
Eternity · 26-30, M
Yeah thats one thing that really fucks the conservative platform; they've got a really really bad track record.
The thing is, not everything they advocate for is entirely pointless. Some of it makes logical sense. But the fact that they have been on the wrong side of history so many times makes it real easy to throw the baby out with the bath water.
One could call it karma.
The thing is, not everything they advocate for is entirely pointless. Some of it makes logical sense. But the fact that they have been on the wrong side of history so many times makes it real easy to throw the baby out with the bath water.
One could call it karma.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
I think it’s hard to quantify how many things social conservatism has prevented over the years that has contributed to our well being .
I mean like spread of disease type of stuff .
Mostly I think it’s been on the wrong side and agree w you .
I mean like spread of disease type of stuff .
Mostly I think it’s been on the wrong side and agree w you .
@AthrillatheHunt
Yeah i can't think of any examples where something progressive turned out to be actually harmful and conservatives were right to oppose it.
Not to say there aren't any. Just that maybe that's indicative of the score board lol
What is this in reference to?
Yeah i can't think of any examples where something progressive turned out to be actually harmful and conservatives were right to oppose it.
Not to say there aren't any. Just that maybe that's indicative of the score board lol
I mean like spread of disease type of stuff .
What is this in reference to?
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
Oh that would be always. But wont stop them creating rules for others that they dont follow themselves..😷
redredred · M
LegendofPeza · 56-60, M
@redredred Thatcher was never a Lady , that's a title saved only for Royals. She became Baroness Thatcher after being given a life peerage when she left office.
redredred · M
@LegendofPeza that’s your takeaway from what I wrote. Cool
LegendofPeza · 56-60, M
@redredred No , that was me correcting your mistake.
SinlessOnslaught · 26-30, M
Can you show me where conservatives align with those groups in the past?
Dshhh · M
often
Crazywaterspring · 61-69, M
Never.
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