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walt82 · 80-89, M
This is my first posting. Please, let's stop the schoolyard insults and try to seriously discuss the issues raised by the original question "I really would like to debate a conservative GOP as to what you guys would like to see happen in our country". I'm an old guy who is totally politically unaffiliated so I don't have a dog in the fight. But, as an American citizen, I need to understand what all this bickering is about. The Left seems to have a long list of goals they would like to attain but their constituents are so varied they can't seem to agree on anything. But at least they have an agenda. On the other hand, the Right has yet to articulate what they want. They feel greatly aggrieved but can't seem to point to anything tangible as the source of their grievance.
It seems as though Republicans' pet peeve is that the 2020 election was "stolen" - what does that even mean? There is not a single piece of evidence of voter fraud that hasn't been discredited, yet the wailing still continues.
So come on guys, explain to us exactly what has got you so wound-up.
I hope some of you more serious conservative forum members take the time to write in and offer your facts and opinions to make your case on your side of the debate without name-calling or offering Qanon and Fox News quotes as proof of Liberal wrong-doing. Such strong feelings have to have some basis in fact, so please enlighten us.
It seems as though Republicans' pet peeve is that the 2020 election was "stolen" - what does that even mean? There is not a single piece of evidence of voter fraud that hasn't been discredited, yet the wailing still continues.
So come on guys, explain to us exactly what has got you so wound-up.
I hope some of you more serious conservative forum members take the time to write in and offer your facts and opinions to make your case on your side of the debate without name-calling or offering Qanon and Fox News quotes as proof of Liberal wrong-doing. Such strong feelings have to have some basis in fact, so please enlighten us.
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walt82 · 80-89, M
@Strictgram No one said anything about uncontrolled open borders, only that shutting down immigration at the southern border would do serious damage to our economy - imagine what a head of lettuce would cost you if it was picked by people earning $15 per hour. Talk about ill-informed, do you understand that most immigrants are good people fleeing horrendous living conditions beyond our ability to comprehend - many are fleeing out of fear of being murdered. Of course, a few bad apples will slip in but on a per-capita basis not nearly as many as fear mongers such as yourself would suggest.
walt82 · 80-89, M
@Strictgram @Strictgram Do you understand that a guest worker is not an immigrant? Guest workers come here with the understanding that they will eventually return to their native country. Immigrants are seeking sanctuary, they cannot go back for all the reasons already discussed. The Right has attempted to paint all immigrants with the same broad brush of being terrorists, etc, etc. They are not. Most of them, legal and illegal, are looking for a safe place, period. We apparently agree on one thing, border security is important and it must be improved. But never again as it was handled during the previous administration. (we probably don't agree on that last sentence, huh?)
WalksWith · 51-55, F
They simply can't. You will get a list of grievances, mostly things they've heard from liars, but nothing of substance. I ask continually "What is the conservative platform?" Maybe get a vague paragraph of "the border crisis" but, I certainly don't receive what the repubs agenda/platform is. The repubs who have critical thinking skills left the party. Those with greed addictions, those who are so easily led, and those who want one leader to lead for the rest of their life (and continue leading through their children) are still saying that an election that was 2 years ago, was stolen, without any proof.
The Republican Party has even done away with debating in election cycles. They simply cannot debate their stance. They know that their wants and beliefs are 'out there' and can't defend their beliefs because it's too hard to.
Cruelty is the point, 'owning the libs' is the point, stopping progress is the point, and giving tax breaks and even more wealth to those that already have it, is the point. How can the 'debate' those beliefs?
The Republican Party has even done away with debating in election cycles. They simply cannot debate their stance. They know that their wants and beliefs are 'out there' and can't defend their beliefs because it's too hard to.
Cruelty is the point, 'owning the libs' is the point, stopping progress is the point, and giving tax breaks and even more wealth to those that already have it, is the point. How can the 'debate' those beliefs?
RedBaron · M
Won’t happen. It will devolve into the usual suspects - Mr. Brownstone, Marmee March, Sunsporter, and hippyjoe on the right and Graylight, spjennifer, and others on the left posting stupid memes and calling each other idiots. It’s so predictable that I posted a question on it yesterday.
RedBaron · M
@spjennifer That's not the point here. Nobody thinks the other side's arguments are cogent, and that's why it always devolves and becomes pointless.
spjennifer · 56-60, T
@RedBaron Kind of like your comment...
RedBaron · M
@spjennifer Or, more accurately, your prior comment.
walt82 · 80-89, M
Here's a comment from at least one conservative who replied to this topic -
"boudinMan · 56-60, M
for starters:
- secure the southern border. if someone wants to immigrate, they must follow the rules.
- keep taxes low, including corporate taxes.
- strive for energy independence.
- males have penises, females don't. no exceptions. no need to be teaching sexual orientation to kids in K - 3. parents can do that.
- term limits for congress."
This is good - I agree with the first point. The southern immigration route has got to be controlled. How about this - take the money that's required to effectively stop illegal immigration and spend it to create jobs and improved living conditions in the countries where the immigrants are coming from. This might actually benefit our own economy by creating an alternative to Chinese manufacturing.
Point two - Lower taxes, everyone wants lower taxes but taxes must be equitable. The last round of cuts benefitted the wealthy greatly with very little for the overburdened middle class.
Point three - everyone agrees with this.
Point four - Yes and no. K-3 probably. Older kids should be made aware that certain tendencies are not evil, they just happen and must be respected. Burying our heads in the sand pretending this will go away if we just ignore it is not going to work, it never has. No one chooses to be gay or trans, they are born that way and parents just are not equipped to properly explain this because most of us don't really understand this issue well enough.
Point five - Agreed.
"boudinMan · 56-60, M
for starters:
- secure the southern border. if someone wants to immigrate, they must follow the rules.
- keep taxes low, including corporate taxes.
- strive for energy independence.
- males have penises, females don't. no exceptions. no need to be teaching sexual orientation to kids in K - 3. parents can do that.
- term limits for congress."
This is good - I agree with the first point. The southern immigration route has got to be controlled. How about this - take the money that's required to effectively stop illegal immigration and spend it to create jobs and improved living conditions in the countries where the immigrants are coming from. This might actually benefit our own economy by creating an alternative to Chinese manufacturing.
Point two - Lower taxes, everyone wants lower taxes but taxes must be equitable. The last round of cuts benefitted the wealthy greatly with very little for the overburdened middle class.
Point three - everyone agrees with this.
Point four - Yes and no. K-3 probably. Older kids should be made aware that certain tendencies are not evil, they just happen and must be respected. Burying our heads in the sand pretending this will go away if we just ignore it is not going to work, it never has. No one chooses to be gay or trans, they are born that way and parents just are not equipped to properly explain this because most of us don't really understand this issue well enough.
Point five - Agreed.
BohemianBoo · M
@walt82 He's lying. And this is the reason why we can't debate or even discuss things with Conservatives. They're Fascists, but can't openly say so.
[quote]- secure the southern border. if someone wants to immigrate, they must follow the rules.[/quote]
Biden did this, but they don't actually care, so they keep lying about how we have open borders.
[quote]- keep taxes low, including corporate taxes.[/quote]
True, but misleading. They want taxes low for the rich. They're fine when taxes are raised on the working-class.
[quote]- strive for energy independence.[/quote]
They're against absolutely any policy that works towards this.
[quote]- males have penises, females don't. no exceptions. no need to be teaching sexual orientation to kids in K - 3. parents can do that.[/quote]
Aside from the "no exceptions" part being objectively wrong, this is really just about them hating trans people.
And nobody wants to teach sexual orientation to kids, but a lot of people do want kids to know that gay people exist, the same way they're taught that straight people exist. But Conservatives hate gays, so they're against this. And that's what they really mean.
[quote]- term limits for congress."[/quote]
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, though it's probably bullshit too.
[quote]- secure the southern border. if someone wants to immigrate, they must follow the rules.[/quote]
Biden did this, but they don't actually care, so they keep lying about how we have open borders.
[quote]- keep taxes low, including corporate taxes.[/quote]
True, but misleading. They want taxes low for the rich. They're fine when taxes are raised on the working-class.
[quote]- strive for energy independence.[/quote]
They're against absolutely any policy that works towards this.
[quote]- males have penises, females don't. no exceptions. no need to be teaching sexual orientation to kids in K - 3. parents can do that.[/quote]
Aside from the "no exceptions" part being objectively wrong, this is really just about them hating trans people.
And nobody wants to teach sexual orientation to kids, but a lot of people do want kids to know that gay people exist, the same way they're taught that straight people exist. But Conservatives hate gays, so they're against this. And that's what they really mean.
[quote]- term limits for congress."[/quote]
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, though it's probably bullshit too.
BohemianBoo · M
deadgerbil · 22-25, F
deadgerbil · 22-25, F
spjennifer · 56-60, T
@deadgerbil The problem is, you're not debating "Conservatives" your discussing with far Right, QAnon loons who couldn't debate any policies because they have none, all they do is spew religious, racial and divisive hatred, the current crop of "Conservatives" aren't Republicans they are the fringe minority which has taken over the party now.
boudinMan · 61-69, M
for starters:
- secure the southern border. if someone wants to immigrate, they must follow the rules.
- keep taxes low, including corporate taxes.
- strive for energy independence.
- males have penises, females don't. no exceptions. no need to be teaching sexual orientation to kids in K - 3. parents can do that.
- term limits for congress.
- secure the southern border. if someone wants to immigrate, they must follow the rules.
- keep taxes low, including corporate taxes.
- strive for energy independence.
- males have penises, females don't. no exceptions. no need to be teaching sexual orientation to kids in K - 3. parents can do that.
- term limits for congress.
boudinMan · 61-69, M
@BohemianBoo that's your opinion, which doesn't count for much in my book. if someone wants to dress as the opposite sex, go for it. they've always had the right to do that... it's no different today than it was before. but, i don't have to accept as normal calling someone who is obviously a male a female. and i don't have to accept as normal biological males competing against females in sports. and i don't want my tax dollars being spent on teaching young kids that they can just choose their gender. i contend that you are born as either male or female.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@boudinMan [quote]beyond laughable[/quote] Good way to start open, respectful dialogue.
[quote]we want tax cuts for all[/quote] You all want everyone to have the same things,...except that's not how need works. An uneven playing field with newly mowed grass is still uneven.
[quote] we were energy independent under trump.[/quote] The US has never been energy independent by any measure. This is really one of the weakest myths that flies around. And until you start looking at other sources, dependence is a foregone conclusion.
[quote]that's your opinion, which doesn't count for much in my book[/quote] Again, very genteel way to end a healthy, robust discussion.
What you need more than anything is to first understand what important issues really are and the actual, reality-driven facts behind them. Then you can open your mouth with more than an uniformed opinion.
[quote]we want tax cuts for all[/quote] You all want everyone to have the same things,...except that's not how need works. An uneven playing field with newly mowed grass is still uneven.
[quote] we were energy independent under trump.[/quote] The US has never been energy independent by any measure. This is really one of the weakest myths that flies around. And until you start looking at other sources, dependence is a foregone conclusion.
[quote]that's your opinion, which doesn't count for much in my book[/quote] Again, very genteel way to end a healthy, robust discussion.
What you need more than anything is to first understand what important issues really are and the actual, reality-driven facts behind them. Then you can open your mouth with more than an uniformed opinion.
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AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
Zaphod42 · 46-50, M
Vin53 · M
BohemianBoo · M
@Vin53 What do you mean? Communism and Fascism?
SW-User
They literally only care about themselves getting what they want.
BackyardShaman · 61-69, M
I don’t know what a conservative GOP really is anymore????
Dino11 · M
That changes by the week.
Graylight · 51-55, F
[image deleted]
bijouxbroussard · F
They often tend to be vague, because many are operating on misinformed premises. Like not believing the results of a fair election because the [b]loser[/b] told them it was fraudulent, and that the legal challenges proved unfounded because the system was corrupt (again, based on the word of said loser).
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bijouxbroussard · F
@Vin53 I used to try, but it tended to go as follows:
Them (unfounded generalization about "libs")
Me: Based upon what ?
Them: Incident or quote by individual [b]they[/b] consider liberal, usually misreported or misquoted by Fox or Breitbart
Me: That’s [b]not[/b] what they did (or said). This is the context.
Them: That’s a "lib" source. Fox is fair and unbiased.
Me: Seriously ? It’s more than one source. Some are international. Fox is often discredited.
Them: (insults, usually involving “commie”,etc.)
Them (unfounded generalization about "libs")
Me: Based upon what ?
Them: Incident or quote by individual [b]they[/b] consider liberal, usually misreported or misquoted by Fox or Breitbart
Me: That’s [b]not[/b] what they did (or said). This is the context.
Them: That’s a "lib" source. Fox is fair and unbiased.
Me: Seriously ? It’s more than one source. Some are international. Fox is often discredited.
Them: (insults, usually involving “commie”,etc.)