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Are Measles the New Red Scare?

“Do we want to create a society of totalitarian medical rule where you don’t have a choice in anything that is dictated to you by the government and pharmaceutical companies? “ ~ Roman Bystrianyk, in “Measles: The New Red Scare” in “Foreign Policy Journal” https://tinyurl.com/yakeas45 See also “Why Measles is the Quintessential Political Issue of Our Time”, in The New Yorker https://tinyurl.com/y4oqnhg3

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MarkPaul · 26-30, M

Just get vaccinated already.

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jackjjackson · 61-69, M

Guess you blew your chance then. @MarkPaul

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@jackjjackson Oh, Junior. How did you become such a loser? You know the Baby-trump only likes winners, right?

jackjjackson · 61-69, M

@MarkPaul

Pikachu

No.
It's a much leas serious problem.
Unlike polio which was also eradicated by vaccination. Making policy for the demonstrable and objective good of public health is a good thing.
You might just as well get upset about making food vendors wash their hands or wear gloves.

jackjjackson · 61-69, M

That food vendor thing is something that needs serious enforcement. @Pikachu

Pikachu

@jackjjackson

So are vaccines and the enforcement thereof works to the same goal.

MaryJanine · 61-69, F

Food vendors are required to wash their hands or wear disposable gloves. it has been a law since I can remember. Would you care to eat something prepared by one who has dirty hands, transforming a possible illness to you that he or she was carrying into your dish or meal? I think not.

4meAndyou · F

I saw on the news that one Jewish Orthodox community in Brooklyn, New York, is rife with anti-vaxxers. One family travelled to Israel with an unvaccinated child, who caught the measles there.

Because measles are so extremely contagious, the virus spread throughout the community. One man was visiting the Orthodox community, and didn't realize he had caught the measles.

He began to travel, (became known as patient zero), and infected 39 additional people. One of the places he stopped was my favorite Burger Joint downtown, in Plymouth, Massachusetts. He exposed the bartender/waitress, and every person she served for two days until she was notified.

By the time he got done exposing/infecting people, and the exposed got done exposing people, hundreds of people had been exposed. Hundreds....from ONE man.

What really burned my butt about the whole thing was the whinging, entitled, and idiotic response of one of the mothers from the origin point of that exposure. She and all the other mother's in that Jewish Orthodox community were told that they could not bring their children back to public school until they had been vaccinated for measles.

Her response to the school was that THEY were violating HER rights. Ignoring the fact that a percentage of children (I think it is 3%) who contract measles actually DIE.

If I had my way, I would send her kids to school with a couple dozen kids with severe cases of head lice, and shut them all up in a room together. I'll bet you anything she would be the first one to start screaming that her children were being infected with head lice due to the severe negligence of the school department and their total disregard for public health.

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beckychandler · F

@4meAndyou Phil Lawler commented on this the other day:

If I told you that police in New York had been ordered to bar Jewish children from public places, would you be alarmed?

You should be. And it happened. No one said that the order was directed specifically at Jewish children. But that would be the primary effect of a policy announced last month in Rockland County, a suburb of New York city.

Rockland County officials were reacting to an outbreak of measles, which had occurred primarily within the local Orthodox Jewish community. More than 150 children in the county have come down with the disease; most of them were from Orthodox Jewish families, which decline to vaccinate children for religious reasons. So Rockland County officials, citing the risk of a broader epidemic, announced that unvaccinated children would not be allowed in public places such as schools, churches, restaurants, auditoriums, and shopping malls.

How could that order be enforced? As a practical matter, how would police officers know whether or not children were vaccinated? In this case, obviously, children would become suspects if, and only if, their parents wore the distinctive clothing of Orthodox Jews.

Fortunately a New York judge has blocked enforcement of this dangerous order, persuaded by an attorney for Orthodox Jewish plaintiffs who argued that the “religious exemptions [to mandatory vaccination] are sacrosanct.” But county executive Ed Day is undaunted. As he promised to continue the fight against measles, he took a shot at the court’s decision, saying: “It is unacceptable to sit back and do nothing as more of our residents fall ill to this deadly disease and court decisions aside, we will never do that.”

Measles is not ordinarily a deadly disease. Indeed this year, despite a surge in the number of cases, the death toll in New York remains at zero. But it is a highly infectious ailment, and particularly bothersome to health officials because until recently, the disease had very nearly disappeared in the US. The MMR vaccine is very effective in preventing measles, and since the vast majority of children receive that vaccine, the overall American population has developed a “herd immunity.” The mini-epidemic this year, centered in New York, struck almost exclusively people who had not been vaccinated.

Some communities of Orthodox Jews, however, remained unvaccinated. Rockland County officials did not propose to punish those Orthodox Jews for their beliefs. Their children were not to be banished from public life because they were Orthodox Jews. Still they would have been banished, if the policy had taken effect. They would not have been punished for what they believed, but for acting on their beliefs.

The episode in Rockland County should sound an alarm for Catholics. The most insidious threats against our religious freedoms are not frontal assaults, not laws that would ban Catholic worship or punish the expression of Catholic beliefs. The major threats are against taking action on the basis of Catholic beliefs. At least in the foreseeable future, American Catholics are not likely to face prosecution for attending Mass on Sunday. But we may face legal penalties for refusing to conform with public policies that violate our religious convictions—as the policy of vaccination violates the convictions of some Orthodox Jews.

And as a matter of fact, some Catholics—myself included—also have objections to the use of the measles vaccine, MMR, which was developed using tissue from aborted babies. The babies were aborted more than 50 years ago, and the use of the vaccine does not require further abortions today. So moral theologians argue that the use of the vaccine is a case of “remote material cooperation” with an evil act, which can be justified in cases of need.

However, the Vatican also enjoined Catholics to resist the uses of vaccines developed from illicit sources. In 2005 the Pontifical Academy for Life said that “families have a duty to take recourse to alternative vaccines, putting pressure on the political authorities and health systems so that other vaccines without moral problems become available.” That 2005 Vatican statement said that Catholic families could be justified in vaccinating children to avoid a grave danger of disease—mentioning measles in particular—but also could be justified in “the use of conscientious objection with regard to the use of vaccines produced by cell lines of aborted human fetal origin.” The statement insisted that “the use of these vaccines should not be misinterpreted as a declaration of the lawfulness of their production, marketing, and use.”

Sadly, American Catholics did not unite to protest the use of the MMR vaccine, and demand the development of alternative treatments. Church leaders in this country did not exhort the faithful to demand moral alternatives—let alone to decline vaccination. As a result, the drive for mandatory vaccinations against measles gained momentum, and pharmaceutical companies actually stopped producing vaccines that provided morally acceptable alternatives.

Sadder still, the Vatican has now changed its tune on the question of vaccination. The Pontifical Academy for Life—which has been completely revamped and redirected under Pope Francis—recently issued a new statement, effectively reversing the earlier policy. The new statement emphasizes that today’s vaccines are only remotely connected to the original use of aborted fetal tissue, so that they “no longer imply that bond of moral cooperation.” The Pontifical Academy suggests a much stronger moral obligation “to guarantee the vaccination coverage necessary for the safety of others.”

The new Vatican statement claims that no abortions are needed for the development of new vaccines. That is true—it always was true—but researchers are touting the qualities of a new line, Walvax II, which has been developed from fetal tissues, as the possible base for development new and improved vaccines. What incentive do pharmaceutical companies have to reject the new Walvax line, if Catholics (and others committed to the pro-life cause) do not mount a concerted campaign against the use of illicit vaccines?https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=1341

4meAndyou · F

@beckychandler Obviously you support the giant measles outbreak that is multiplying geometrically across the country now. Slightly more than 2% of the children who contract the measles will die. Elderly people can also die from the measles. People dying to satisfy the religious scruples of some folks is NOT okay.

therighttothink50 · 56-60, M

@4meAndyou People are dying because of a political class of leftist globalists which inhabit both the democratic and republican parties.

Two thuggish parties whose occupants believe in turning the USA into a third world hell hole, by importing cheap labor, a collection of illiterate drones, a group of people who bring with them many eradicated diseases here in the US, diseases which go unchecked as they invade our country.

We don't need these people in this country, we don't need more problems. We also don't need a government who is allowed to tell you what you can do with your own kids. To trust this government today with anything is to become willfully ignorant of the corrupt power they currently wield.

To give into a diabolical leftist technocracy is not only ignorant but very foolish. Trusting a guy like Bill DiBlasio in nyc is like trusting a form of an evil corrupt Oliver Hardy. DiBlasio is not only incompetent and evil, he is a pure joke who wants the government to tell you how to breathe, how to eat and how to live.

No, I don't buy into his BS and never will. He has a demonic agenda, just like Hussein Obama. It's all about government controlling your through virtue signaling, scare tactics and alarmism, that is the ultimate evil.

MaryJanine · 61-69, F

Measles in the new "Red Scare". I can speak from my experiences with it and also Rubella (German measles variety).

The rules when I was going into kindergarten was that you had to take a plethora of shots, measles and polio leading the list. Like any kid in the 1960's, I HATED shots, but my mother was firm about it. She didn't want us to get sick...but I contracted it my first year in school because of some kid (don't remember who) was a "carrier" with a mild case of it. In those days, the thought was"Give your child a shot, and they probably won't contract it". But the vaccine in those times were also very weak. All my siblings contracted the disease, shot or no shot.The thought also was once usually establishing immunity.
When I was 10 and in the fifth grade, I contacted Rubella, commonly known as German measles. The measles shot was ineffective on this disease; if you got it, you got it, and it had to run its course.

Now a few decades later, measles is making a comeback. Parents, according to the news as of this morning, are refusing for religious or political reasons to vaccinate their offspring, and they don't worry about their kids getting it because a few years ago, doctors said measles had been eradicated. Don't these parents know that measles can kill or lead to blindness or even diabetes? I and my siblings were lucky - we all contracted the strains of measles from each other, but because we had gotten shots, we ran the lower-risk strain of both.

The newscaster said that some parents are peeling the misinformation off the Internet about measles not being serious, and for that reason parents are not getting their kids protected. He also said the health departments of various states suggest people who were vaccinated as kids now get re-inoculated as adults. This means this is serious.

Sorry - not for me. Needles and I don't get along, and I had my share as a kid. If it comes,I'll hibernate in a closet someplace.

Shade70 · 51-55, M

Hmm, do we want to live in a world where eradicable diseases are actually eradicated? Goodness, thats a tough one...

bowman81 · M

It seems to me, that if everyone else was vaccinated the only threat the anti-vax people pose is to themselves. Of course all the people sliding in our border illegally have been vaccinated, haven't they?

It is important to be vaccinated or to have had the disease like just about everyone in the country who was born before 1975 did. What is silly is there is no way of telling who was vaccinated, who had the disease and these laws are unenforceable. Lets pass a law that accomplishes nothing but makes some feel like they did something. Should we issue ID cards with medical histories on it? Everyone show it before entering any public place. "Papers Please".

QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M

@bowman81 Mexico has a higher vaccination rate than we do. So... yeah, mostly.

https://www.cato.org/blog/migrant-caravan-central-america-vaccination-rates

MaryJanine · 61-69, F

My youngest brother is six years younger than I am. Do you know he called me the other night and asked me if he had the measles? He said he couldn't remember whether he had them or not. To my recollection, I came home from kindergarten with them, with the German variety about five years later. I am certain we passed the variety around among all four of us. I can't believe anybody who had either couldn't remember (and my primary doctor at the time died several decades ago, when I was still a kid myself). He also said his son didn't remember whether he did or not. In view of the current outbreak, I think he and his son BOTH better find a way to doublecheck my information for his own health's sake. (I know this same brother contracted the chicken pox from one of his playmates, but we - my stepsister, other brother and me - did not.)

therighttothink50 · 56-60, M

You have to be crazy to trust anything involved with this leftist authoritarian technocratic tyranny, the people behind this police state are the most vile and evil creatures on earth.

SheikYerbouti · 51-55, M

Anti-vaccination types are looney.

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MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@SheikYerbouti They most likely hunt for sinister conspiracies to give their lives meaning.

SheikYerbouti · 51-55, M

@MarkPaul It's some kind of confirmation bias. If it's on the Internet it must be true. Like the Flat Earthers, they won't believe no matter how much proof you show them. Really disturbing.

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@SheikYerbouti Indeed.

monte3 · 70-79, M

No and vaccination is just good and responsible behavior.

Northwest · M

Here's what I told the anti-vaxers, when this came up at my kids' schools: I love that you can stick to your beliefs, and admire you for it, but I hope you don't mind if we want you to keep your unvaccinated kids, the [removed by staff] out of school, because the rest of us believe in science.

soar2newhighs

No, it's not. When you got a small child, adolescent or teen and possibly an adult, suffering from the effects, and the condition is one of a contagious nature-it's NOT a scare, it's reality!

MaryJanine · 61-69, F

If you are an unvaccinated adult, and managed to come in contact with somebody who is a carrier, you're going to get it if you didn't as a child. That was also the reason why so many kids were vaccinated in the early years of the "polio scares". For two years in a row, when I was about six or seven, I got an attack in my knees during the winter and I couldn't walk. My parents had to guide me to and from the bathroom or bedroom. I know the fear was "polio" even though I had received the requisite shots. Whatever it was went away as I got older and grew up - until I was in my early twenties. The it came back with a vengeance - and stayed. Today, it is arthritis.

beckychandler · F

I vax my kids and think (like 95% of the people) that this is a good idea, But on the other hand there are so many scared little totalitarian lunkheads here, it is just depressing.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

This "totalitarian state" is how every modern state but the US has operated for almost a century. I don't recall having a dictator here in Canada or in the EU.

curiosi · 61-69, F

Yep and we should all see the danger in the government mandating that anything be put into our bodies.

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@curiosi And, that includes food, air, and water. Where's my new tinfoil hat already? Those damn delivery people; they're never on time.

HerKing · 61-69, M

@curiosi

Yep and we should all see the danger in the government mandating that anything be put into our bodies.

Ding ding ding... Probably the most stupid comment on this site.

Milkshake · F

anti vaxxers need all to be locked up... this isnt a political thing

soar2newhighs

I saw recently where DeBlasio and his health Dept. aren't playing games on this and has closed yeshivas and has threatened to fine those failing to follow his mandates on getting kids vaccinated.

TheOneyouwerewarnedabout · 46-50, MVIP

Sort of highlights the importance of procedure when entering other countries huh..?

Just let diseases walk on in we’ve spent 100 years and a shit tonne of money trying to eradicate

Frank52 · 70-79, M

@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout Were they not eradicated by mass vaccination?

DuchessOfMapleSyrup · M

yes. "you're all gonna die if you don't inject your healthy kid with measles!!!!"

HannahSky · F

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5cb49773e4b098b9a2d7579d

CereBellum

MMR and DPT shots are a necessary evil.

QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M

Lmao just get vaccinated. It’s the 21st century.

HerKing · 61-69, M

No it isn't.

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