Can I get the definition for "woman" please?
🤣🤣🤣
spot on for the people who.. well you know who they are
[media=https://youtu.be/5mnQTzhVgl8]
spot on for the people who.. well you know who they are
[media=https://youtu.be/5mnQTzhVgl8]
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TinyViolins · 31-35, M
I know this is the new anti-woke "gotcha" question, but you have to understand that there are multiple ways you can answer a question a like that.
I mean you can analyze it through the psychological/behavioral route by saying women are feminine and express that femininity in ways like wearing dresses and makeup and being nurturing and submissive. But obviously there are women that reject femininity so having such a limited definition will be somewhat exclusive.
You can also go the philosophical/social route by saying women are the ones who give birth to children, that stay at home, that cook meals, that clean the house. But again, a definition like this pretty narrow and bound by culture.
You can look at it from a legal perspective and say that a girl is not a woman until she turns 18. Or maybe you want to judge it by some level of experience or mental maturity, like saying a girl doesn't become a woman until she can fend for herself without parental help. Like in the animal kingdom, we typically say that a child doesn't become an adult until they reach reproductive capabilities or until they leave the pack, we can argue that boys don't become men or girls don't become women until they meet certain requirements.
But we all know this is meant to be a jab at trans people, so let's get down to the biological route. Do we keep it simple and say that women are small and weak, men are big and strong? Isn't that what the whole trans people in sports debate is all about anyway? We gotta protect the small and weak, right? Then again, lots of sports have weight classes for the same reason. Some people are always going to be bigger and stronger than others.
We could keep it anatomical and say that women have breasts and hips, men have beards and muscles, so people can take one look at a person and know right away whether they're a man or a woman. Except that there are many unfortunate cases of women having facial fair and men having moobs, and many more examples of men and women not having any of the physical characteristics they should.
So do we go for something even more fundamental than that, like one specific biological trait? Sex chromosomes are all the rage, but what about sex hormones like testosterone or estrogen? These are the parts of us that are responsible for so many of the other traits like the ones I listed above. You don't grow up to have a male-bodied or female-bodied person without these parts of us doing the work they're supposed to. Without normal chromosomal or hormonal activity, your fetus would never develop properly and you'd be born intersex.
The problem with intersex people is that they're not exactly a 50/50 mix of male and female traits, they're usually mostly typically male or mostly typically female. It would be hard to categorize it based on appearances alone since they may look, act, and sound like you would expect from a woman, yet they're chromosomally male.
I know this is a lot of words for something that doesn't even answer the question, but you do have to understand that to define something is to limit it. Human biology, and behavior, is pretty complex, which is why this is even a question. There are number of different ways you could approach such a definition.
Think of it this way, if it was easy to determine what made a man and what made a woman, why does it seem so hard for men and women to understand each other?
I mean you can analyze it through the psychological/behavioral route by saying women are feminine and express that femininity in ways like wearing dresses and makeup and being nurturing and submissive. But obviously there are women that reject femininity so having such a limited definition will be somewhat exclusive.
You can also go the philosophical/social route by saying women are the ones who give birth to children, that stay at home, that cook meals, that clean the house. But again, a definition like this pretty narrow and bound by culture.
You can look at it from a legal perspective and say that a girl is not a woman until she turns 18. Or maybe you want to judge it by some level of experience or mental maturity, like saying a girl doesn't become a woman until she can fend for herself without parental help. Like in the animal kingdom, we typically say that a child doesn't become an adult until they reach reproductive capabilities or until they leave the pack, we can argue that boys don't become men or girls don't become women until they meet certain requirements.
But we all know this is meant to be a jab at trans people, so let's get down to the biological route. Do we keep it simple and say that women are small and weak, men are big and strong? Isn't that what the whole trans people in sports debate is all about anyway? We gotta protect the small and weak, right? Then again, lots of sports have weight classes for the same reason. Some people are always going to be bigger and stronger than others.
We could keep it anatomical and say that women have breasts and hips, men have beards and muscles, so people can take one look at a person and know right away whether they're a man or a woman. Except that there are many unfortunate cases of women having facial fair and men having moobs, and many more examples of men and women not having any of the physical characteristics they should.
So do we go for something even more fundamental than that, like one specific biological trait? Sex chromosomes are all the rage, but what about sex hormones like testosterone or estrogen? These are the parts of us that are responsible for so many of the other traits like the ones I listed above. You don't grow up to have a male-bodied or female-bodied person without these parts of us doing the work they're supposed to. Without normal chromosomal or hormonal activity, your fetus would never develop properly and you'd be born intersex.
The problem with intersex people is that they're not exactly a 50/50 mix of male and female traits, they're usually mostly typically male or mostly typically female. It would be hard to categorize it based on appearances alone since they may look, act, and sound like you would expect from a woman, yet they're chromosomally male.
I know this is a lot of words for something that doesn't even answer the question, but you do have to understand that to define something is to limit it. Human biology, and behavior, is pretty complex, which is why this is even a question. There are number of different ways you could approach such a definition.
Think of it this way, if it was easy to determine what made a man and what made a woman, why does it seem so hard for men and women to understand each other?
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TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@SW-User What is the line between male and female? The OP is asking for a definition and all I'm saying is that there can be many. Not all of us are gifted in analyzing jaw fragments or someone's center of gravity. As if those are the only things that separate male and female
My closing point was that human biology is complex, and your closing point here seems to reach the same conclusion. Trying to come up with a concise definition of a woman is hard because, as you said, small deviations have massive physical and psychological impacts. What if someone is physically female but psychologically male due to a deviation like this? How would they be defined?
My closing point was that human biology is complex, and your closing point here seems to reach the same conclusion. Trying to come up with a concise definition of a woman is hard because, as you said, small deviations have massive physical and psychological impacts. What if someone is physically female but psychologically male due to a deviation like this? How would they be defined?
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TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@SW-User I agree that males and females are biologically distinct. I don't know if anyone is seriously trying to make the argument that they're not. But I can't say that the differences are so unmistakable that anybody can easily define it.
I've had a coworker that had a slightly deeper voice and broader shoulders compared to other women, and she would tell me that other people would mistake her for trans despite being completely female.
I've seen videos of women getting harassed at public bathrooms because they had short hair and dressed tomboyish. People assumed they were men and tried to kick them out based on appearances.
I also had a friend that had gamine features and dressed somewhat androgynous, and would get called slurs for homosexual men because that's what they thought she was. Again, people mistook a woman for a man because of their arbitrary definitions for what a woman is supposed to be.
Trans people in sports is not a debate I particularly care for since sports are not something I consider all that important, but the athletic differences between men and women have been well established. If they decided to ban all trans athletes tomorrow, I wouldn't blink an eye.
I've had a coworker that had a slightly deeper voice and broader shoulders compared to other women, and she would tell me that other people would mistake her for trans despite being completely female.
I've seen videos of women getting harassed at public bathrooms because they had short hair and dressed tomboyish. People assumed they were men and tried to kick them out based on appearances.
I also had a friend that had gamine features and dressed somewhat androgynous, and would get called slurs for homosexual men because that's what they thought she was. Again, people mistook a woman for a man because of their arbitrary definitions for what a woman is supposed to be.
Trans people in sports is not a debate I particularly care for since sports are not something I consider all that important, but the athletic differences between men and women have been well established. If they decided to ban all trans athletes tomorrow, I wouldn't blink an eye.
BlueVeins · 22-25
Babylon Bee is one of the most boring partisan rags out there. 'Woman' is a label that's connected to, but not exclusive to, the female sex in adult human beings. Conservatives have only adopted this apparent misconception that definitions don't evolve and change over time because it's convenient to their argument in this case, which is that we should suppress transgender people.
Torsten · 36-40, M
@BlueVeins and i have been around for 35 and do not accept at 8 years old, I had a label of being "cisgender" attached to me all of a sudden.
A word can become valid pretty fast but again the majority of people do not accept it or even know what it is. Seems to be just a thing for those well in identity politics and them alone
A word can become valid pretty fast but again the majority of people do not accept it or even know what it is. Seems to be just a thing for those well in identity politics and them alone
BlueVeins · 22-25
@Torsten Like it or not, everyone has labels attached to them. You're a white man, I am too. Some people are gamers or bikers or fashionistas; and Hell, a lotta people make fun of all those people. Labels can be troublesome because people will use them to convey sectarian messages about [i]any[/i] group they dislike. And by the way, this applies [i]one hundred times more[/i] for marginalized groups like black people, immigrants or gay people. But we don't get rid of words just because some people use them in mean ways. If you want to fight sectarianism, go to the source of the problem and try addressing that.
A lot of trans people are kinda bitter towards cisgender people and will use the term derisively, and they do that because they've been systemically mistreated by a society that was overwhelmingly built by cisgender folks. If you want Tumblrinas to give up their little rhetorical war against the cis people, you're infinitely better off fighting systemic transphobia instead.
A lot of trans people are kinda bitter towards cisgender people and will use the term derisively, and they do that because they've been systemically mistreated by a society that was overwhelmingly built by cisgender folks. If you want Tumblrinas to give up their little rhetorical war against the cis people, you're infinitely better off fighting systemic transphobia instead.
Torsten · 36-40, M
@BlueVeins umm people do get rid of words because people are "mean" that is why you hear people say "the N word" or "the F word" instead of what they actually are. Sorry mate but you're incorrect.
Cisgender is not a real thing. When the majority of people reject it, it will never be a real thing. A small majority will use it but it will be like teens trying to use a word they make up and feel cool for doing it when the rest of the world dont care or acknowledge it.
I do really enjoy that made up word shows the hypocrisy of those who use it though. That I find hilarious.
Cisgender is not a real thing. When the majority of people reject it, it will never be a real thing. A small majority will use it but it will be like teens trying to use a word they make up and feel cool for doing it when the rest of the world dont care or acknowledge it.
I do really enjoy that made up word shows the hypocrisy of those who use it though. That I find hilarious.
CestManan · 46-50, F
@InHeaven I tell ya, all those people not born without vagina that think they are whatever gender. That is almost as batsh^t loony as when people think the rapture is coming or that we are all going to have to put our money in crypto! Can you imagine someone having those thoughts?
Better go hurry and delete those threads! 😮
Better go hurry and delete those threads! 😮
InHeaven · F
@CestManan I think, “true” women with a penis here are a lot more sensitive than anyone offended by a “conspiracy theorist.” Lol I don’t think my anti vaxx threads make anyone cry 😄 not gon delete them lol. I think, normal people at most don’t care and easily triggered — just get a little angry, no hurt feelings.
JestAJester · 31-35, M
Torsten · 36-40, M
@JestAJester they always show up regardless of topic anyway haha
BohemianBoo · M
Torsten · 36-40, M
@BohemianBoo you keep recycling the same old lame pics. I feel sorry for you at this point
BohemianBoo · M
@Torsten I didn't use that last one on you before. I think you're just triggered because when we actually talked about issues, you got owned.
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CestManan · 46-50, F
What exactly was the point of that video? 🤨
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SW-User
@CestManan I really hate misogynist females - the lowest of the low
TwistedApe · 51-55, M
if a person has XX chromozones and a natural (not man made) vagina she is a woman.
SW-User
Washing machine!!