MommyLucy · 36-40, F
My 81 year old grandfather is pro 2nd ammendment but I personally disagree with guns but I am willing to compromise with the right on gun ownership and let them have their guns all I ask in return is not cry Socialism when we ask for Universal Healthcare! 😌😌😌 Give and take, the right get their guns and the left get access to free tax paid healthcare which to me is a good fair compromise! 😇😇😇 Deep down in my heart I am against guns but my daddy taught me in politics we must compromise with those we disagree with sometimes so because of that lets give you more gun rights in return Medicare For All gets passed! 🤫🤫🤫 Deal? 🤪🤪🤪
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ninalanyon · 70-79, T
@DogMan What does the size of the country have to do with it?
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@DogMan A country the size of USA should in theory be able to find the greatest savings and efficiencies by pooling effort and resources. At the moment Americans spend more per capita on health than practically any other country in the world, to achieve some of the poorest health outcomes (for example, life expectancy, health coverage, etc).
Trump got upset because the British National Health Service (the largest single procurer of medical supploes in the world) had negotiated lower drug prices with American corporations than Americans themselves could expect.
Trump got upset because the British National Health Service (the largest single procurer of medical supploes in the world) had negotiated lower drug prices with American corporations than Americans themselves could expect.
DogMan · 61-69, M
Copilot Search Branding
How Many Lives Are Saved in America by “Good Guys with Guns”?
There is no single, definitive number of lives saved in the U.S. by defensive gun use, and the available data is highly contested due to differences in definitions, survey methods, and reporting.
Key points from research:
Defensive gun use (DGU) refers to instances where law-abiding citizens use firearms to protect themselves, others, or property from perceived threats. These can include brandishing a gun, firing at a threat, or using a firearm defensively without a shot being fired Concealed Nation+1.
Estimates vary widely:
The most conservative U.S. government estimate (from the National Crime Victimization Survey) is about 65,000 DGUs per year Ammo.com.
Broader survey-based studies suggest 60,000 to 2.5 million DGUs annually, with an average around 1.82 million Legal Reader+1.
Some analyses, like the Heritage Foundation’s, note that most DGUs are never reported to law enforcement Data Visualizations | The Heritage Foundation.
Lives saved is a separate question from DGU counts. The 1997 Justice Department study that inspired the “1.5 million lives saved” claim did not state that those defensive uses prevented deaths — it only counted defensive uses, many of which involved no actual threat or injury PolitiFact.
Self-defense outcomes: In cases where a firearm was discharged, studies suggest that in many instances the threat was neutralized, but not all DGUs result in a fatality. The actual number of lives prevented is likely much lower than the total DGU count.
Summary:
While some political and advocacy sources cite “millions of lives saved” annually, no government or independent research confirms that figure. The most credible estimates of DGUs range from hundreds of thousands to over two million per year, but the number of actual lives prevented is unknown and likely smaller, as many defensive uses involve non-lethal outcomes or unreported incidents
How Many Lives Are Saved in America by “Good Guys with Guns”?
There is no single, definitive number of lives saved in the U.S. by defensive gun use, and the available data is highly contested due to differences in definitions, survey methods, and reporting.
Key points from research:
Defensive gun use (DGU) refers to instances where law-abiding citizens use firearms to protect themselves, others, or property from perceived threats. These can include brandishing a gun, firing at a threat, or using a firearm defensively without a shot being fired Concealed Nation+1.
Estimates vary widely:
The most conservative U.S. government estimate (from the National Crime Victimization Survey) is about 65,000 DGUs per year Ammo.com.
Broader survey-based studies suggest 60,000 to 2.5 million DGUs annually, with an average around 1.82 million Legal Reader+1.
Some analyses, like the Heritage Foundation’s, note that most DGUs are never reported to law enforcement Data Visualizations | The Heritage Foundation.
Lives saved is a separate question from DGU counts. The 1997 Justice Department study that inspired the “1.5 million lives saved” claim did not state that those defensive uses prevented deaths — it only counted defensive uses, many of which involved no actual threat or injury PolitiFact.
Self-defense outcomes: In cases where a firearm was discharged, studies suggest that in many instances the threat was neutralized, but not all DGUs result in a fatality. The actual number of lives prevented is likely much lower than the total DGU count.
Summary:
While some political and advocacy sources cite “millions of lives saved” annually, no government or independent research confirms that figure. The most credible estimates of DGUs range from hundreds of thousands to over two million per year, but the number of actual lives prevented is unknown and likely smaller, as many defensive uses involve non-lethal outcomes or unreported incidents
Waveney · M
@DogMan Well you're moving the goalposts now. It started has "guns have nothing to do with it" and it's now turning to "why are people becoming more violent?"
You're arguing against something nobody actually said. Yes, society has changed. Of course researchers are trying to work out why some people become more violent. But that doesn't mean guns suddenly stop being part of the equation. You're treating it as if it has to be either society or guns. It can be both.
Also, why do you keep using your own childhood as evidence? "When I was a kid..." isn't data. And saying people own more guns now "means nothing" is just your opinion. The evidence doesn't support that. Countries with fewer guns don't have anything like America's level of firearm deaths, despite having many of the same social problems.
So yes, ask why people become violent. That's an important question. But pretending gun availability has "absolutely nothing" to do with the outcome isn't where the evidence leads.
You're arguing against something nobody actually said. Yes, society has changed. Of course researchers are trying to work out why some people become more violent. But that doesn't mean guns suddenly stop being part of the equation. You're treating it as if it has to be either society or guns. It can be both.
Also, why do you keep using your own childhood as evidence? "When I was a kid..." isn't data. And saying people own more guns now "means nothing" is just your opinion. The evidence doesn't support that. Countries with fewer guns don't have anything like America's level of firearm deaths, despite having many of the same social problems.
So yes, ask why people become violent. That's an important question. But pretending gun availability has "absolutely nothing" to do with the outcome isn't where the evidence leads.
DogMan · 61-69, M
@Waveney
@DogMan Well you're moving the goalposts now. It started has "guns have nothing to do with it" and it's now turning to "why are people becoming more violent?"
So yes, ask why people become violent. That's an important question
Finally, I got through to you.
Do you get scared when you walk into a gun store? Of course not, why is that? Because you know
that those guns cannot load themselves, or aim, or pull the trigger.
@DogMan Well you're moving the goalposts now. It started has "guns have nothing to do with it" and it's now turning to "why are people becoming more violent?"
So yes, ask why people become violent. That's an important question
Finally, I got through to you.
Do you get scared when you walk into a gun store? Of course not, why is that? Because you know
that those guns cannot load themselves, or aim, or pull the trigger.
Midlifemale · 61-69, M
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@DogMan can you cite the reference?
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DogMan · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues These are cities, Good Lord! Blue Cities. Stop being obtuse.
Answer this question.
If an active shooter was shooting at your family and friends, would you want a good guy with a gun to engage him?
Simple question.
Answer this question.
If an active shooter was shooting at your family and friends, would you want a good guy with a gun to engage him?
Simple question.
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Waveney · M
Yes! They believe if we outlawed guns, that everyone, including criminals would turn
in their guns, and we would all get along fine.
in their guns, and we would all get along fine.
Well, that pretty much happened in the UK, to be fair. We may not be getting along fine, that's another story, but everyone, including criminals, turned in their guns, pretty much.
DogMan · 61-69, M
There is no data for defensive gun use. There have been some studies.
Annual defensive gun use in the U.S.
A 2019 study by Gary Kleck estimated about 2.1 million defensive gun uses (DGUs) occur each year in the U.S., often ending with the offender fleeing and little or no injury. These incidents include shootings, brandishing's, and other defensive actions.
Annual defensive gun use in the U.S.
A 2019 study by Gary Kleck estimated about 2.1 million defensive gun uses (DGUs) occur each year in the U.S., often ending with the offender fleeing and little or no injury. These incidents include shootings, brandishing's, and other defensive actions.
DogMan · 61-69, M
@Waveney Lol, tsk tsk.
Waveney · M
@DogMan You said this was a mass killing. It was nothing of the sort.
No, I said mass casualties.
DogMan · 61-69, M
We learned this weekend that all you need is a van and a machete to cause mass casualties.
Words are important 😉 There were mass casualties, were there not?
Waveney · M
@DogMan You said this was a mass killing. It was nothing of the sort.
No, I said mass casualties.
DogMan · 61-69, M
We learned this weekend that all you need is a van and a machete to cause mass casualties.
Words are important 😉 There were mass casualties, were there not?
DogMan · 61-69, M
Elwood, why are you and Samuel afraid to answer this simple question? You know the correct
answer, but your left wing bias makes you afraid to answer, why is that?
Elwood, I will ask you the same thing I asked Sam, and he would not answer. If an active shooter
was shooting at your family and friends, would you want a good guy with a gun to engage him?
Simple question.
answer, but your left wing bias makes you afraid to answer, why is that?
Elwood, I will ask you the same thing I asked Sam, and he would not answer. If an active shooter
was shooting at your family and friends, would you want a good guy with a gun to engage him?
Simple question.
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AbbeyRhode · F
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SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
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DogMan · 61-69, M
@samueltyler2 So, your answer is that you would rather allow a gunman to exhaust all
his ammo on innocent people rather than have a good guy shoot it out with him.
Tell your family that and see what they say.
his ammo on innocent people rather than have a good guy shoot it out with him.
Tell your family that and see what they say.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@DogMan You are continuing to say nonsensical things. I never said that. You ignore the major factor, those individuals who gain unlawful access to weapons. Before quoting some source, i suggest you back check the source, the reliability, controversies, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck
Yes, possessing a weapon is a significant risk factor for being shot. Multiple public health studies, including research from the National Center for Biotechnology Information, indicate that individuals carrying a firearm are approximately 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those who are unarmed.Several factors contribute to this heightened risk:Escalation of Conflict: Armed individuals are more likely to engage in altercations that escalate to lethal violence. When a potential assailant spots a weapon, they often react with preemptive lethal force.Accessibility and Lethality: Having a weapon readily available increases the likelihood that a disagreement turns into a deadly exchange.Second-hand Risks: Research published by Stanford Medicine and highlighted by the Center for Gun Violence Solutions shows that simply living in a home with a handgun increases the risk of being shot by a family member or intimate partner.While many individuals possess weapons for self-defense, public health experts emphasize that the mere presence of a firearm statistically elevates the risk of homicide, unintentional shootings, and suicide
https://everytownresearch.org/report/disarming-fear-debunking-myths-of-defensive-gun-use/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck
Yes, possessing a weapon is a significant risk factor for being shot. Multiple public health studies, including research from the National Center for Biotechnology Information, indicate that individuals carrying a firearm are approximately 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those who are unarmed.Several factors contribute to this heightened risk:Escalation of Conflict: Armed individuals are more likely to engage in altercations that escalate to lethal violence. When a potential assailant spots a weapon, they often react with preemptive lethal force.Accessibility and Lethality: Having a weapon readily available increases the likelihood that a disagreement turns into a deadly exchange.Second-hand Risks: Research published by Stanford Medicine and highlighted by the Center for Gun Violence Solutions shows that simply living in a home with a handgun increases the risk of being shot by a family member or intimate partner.While many individuals possess weapons for self-defense, public health experts emphasize that the mere presence of a firearm statistically elevates the risk of homicide, unintentional shootings, and suicide
https://everytownresearch.org/report/disarming-fear-debunking-myths-of-defensive-gun-use/
DogMan · 61-69, M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout Remember the pulse nightclub shooting? About a week after
that a copy cat did it somewhere else, and was taken down by a guy there that had a gun.
The gun man still had over 100 rounds when he was killed. It's funny how those are never reported.
that a copy cat did it somewhere else, and was taken down by a guy there that had a gun.
The gun man still had over 100 rounds when he was killed. It's funny how those are never reported.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout I seem to remember the duration of the Bondi Beach shooting was determined by the time it took an unarmed man to confront the gunman.
DogMan · 61-69, M
@SunshineGirl Yes, he was very brave. He tackled and disarmed the shooter. I believe he was shot
in the process. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Australia had very strict guns laws.
That is probably why there was no Good Guy with a Gun. Only the bad guy had a gun.
in the process. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Australia had very strict guns laws.
That is probably why there was no Good Guy with a Gun. Only the bad guy had a gun.
MommyLucy · 36-40, F
@DogMan My daddy who is a huge centrist so to the right of me but to the left of you says most wouldn't agree with my views of restorative prisons instead of punishment prisons so it's cool if you disagree with me! 🤗🤗🤗 My daddy says it would be hard to find those on the left who agree with me on that! 😂😂😂 I just think if there is a chance to save a truly horrible person then lets save them and give them a second chance! 😇😇😇 My husband David agrees with me but he says some crimes like pedophiles or serial killers shouldn't be rehabilitated but my husband David says otherwise he agrees with me! 😘😘😘 My daddy says I'd make an awful judge because any hint of apology and I'll set the criminal free! 😂😂😂 My daddy said the bad guys would love me as a judge but I just want to help bad people become good people! 😔😔😔
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@MasterLee More than 160,000 firearms were surrendered in the amnesty that followed the Dunblane shooting. We now have one of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths in the world (as well as one of the lowest homicide rates overall).
Facts don't lie. Elon does (lie).
Facts don't lie. Elon does (lie).
MasterLee · 56-60, M
@SunshineGirl actually, you lie
emiliya · 26-30, F
@DogMan
Asking the American to get rid of his gun is like asking the Jew to do away with his money. You brought guns to America, and since the War of Independence the gun has not left your side.
Keep your guns, you do not want to be like Waveney and SunshineGirl. The European no longer has a soul. Be American.
Many more people would die in America if they outlawed guns. Because there would be a civil war first. Then even if all the good law abiding people turned in their guns, the bad people would not, but they would know that no one else had guns and crime would be out of control.
Asking the American to get rid of his gun is like asking the Jew to do away with his money. You brought guns to America, and since the War of Independence the gun has not left your side.
Keep your guns, you do not want to be like Waveney and SunshineGirl. The European no longer has a soul. Be American.
emiliya · 26-30, F
@DogMan Gun ownership is vigilance. The Paleolithic man would have wished he had a gun to hunt beasts and kill intruders. Man after farming and gathering of resource needed any weapon he could find. For thousands of years it was stones and sharp blades. Guns have now shaped the world for close to 1000 years. How else can man conduct his affairs? And how can you defend yourself without your gun?
They trust a government that is on their side. Man trusts an ally who is on his side. Your freedom and my freedom don't matter, and that is why you must keep your guns.
These are also the same people that want more and more government control over our lives.
They trust a government that is on their side. Man trusts an ally who is on his side. Your freedom and my freedom don't matter, and that is why you must keep your guns.
Waveney · M
OK then so. Let's get to the real meat of the problem:
Who are you blaming for the rise in gun violence in America?
Who are you blaming for the rise in gun violence in America?
sree251 · 41-45, M
@DogMan
The US military is the gun culture I speak of. And it means shooting people dead. Who is in it? My grandfather. He was in it. He was a veteran of foreign wars having served in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. My mother said he would stay in the dark in the basement by himself for hours everyday. He retired a colonel in the US Army. Did he kill anyone?
I wouldn't know what these gun culture guys do after their tours. Some of them would shoot their mouths off in podcasts like the one below. Killing another human being is life-transforming.
[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh1a3V_DE6Y]
What is this Gun Culture you speak of? What does that mean?, and who is in it?
The US military is the gun culture I speak of. And it means shooting people dead. Who is in it? My grandfather. He was in it. He was a veteran of foreign wars having served in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. My mother said he would stay in the dark in the basement by himself for hours everyday. He retired a colonel in the US Army. Did he kill anyone?
You say it has nothing to do with target shooting or hunting, well, what exactly do these Gun
culture guys do.? Murder?
culture guys do.? Murder?
I wouldn't know what these gun culture guys do after their tours. Some of them would shoot their mouths off in podcasts like the one below. Killing another human being is life-transforming.
[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh1a3V_DE6Y]
DogMan · 61-69, M
@sree251 What does this have to do with Civilians murdering people? We didn't have mass murders
after WW1 or WW2,
My dad had to kill many times in Italy. More than once using a bayonet. Yes, he taught
me to shoot when I was very young.
His M1 Garand saved his life many times. I do not know what that would be like.
He did not like hunting after the war, he did not want to kill anymore. But he stayed proficient
with rifles, shotguns, and handguns. And he taught me the same.
after WW1 or WW2,
My dad had to kill many times in Italy. More than once using a bayonet. Yes, he taught
me to shoot when I was very young.
His M1 Garand saved his life many times. I do not know what that would be like.
He did not like hunting after the war, he did not want to kill anymore. But he stayed proficient
with rifles, shotguns, and handguns. And he taught me the same.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@DogMan
People killing people outside of war is a human problem in any society. It is just more pronounced in the USA. Every now and then it happens in the most unlikely places elsewhere; especially, in Europe.
Did he teach you how to use that bayonet also? Where would you stick it in the other guy?
It would be like hell. At times of killing, all sanity is gone. This is why women are raped and killed by the rapists right after that in war time.
I am sure there are things about your father you would rather not reveal. My grandfather never talked about his war time battles. His military officer bearing was impeccable even when he was in t shirt and not donning his uniform.
What does this have to do with Civilians murdering people? We didn't have mass murders after WW1 or WW2,
People killing people outside of war is a human problem in any society. It is just more pronounced in the USA. Every now and then it happens in the most unlikely places elsewhere; especially, in Europe.
My dad had to kill many times in Italy. More than once using a bayonet. Yes, he taught
me to shoot when I was very young.
me to shoot when I was very young.
Did he teach you how to use that bayonet also? Where would you stick it in the other guy?
His M1 Garand saved his life many times. I do not know what that would be like.
It would be like hell. At times of killing, all sanity is gone. This is why women are raped and killed by the rapists right after that in war time.
He did not like hunting after the war, he did not want to kill anymore. But he stayed proficient
with rifles, shotguns, and handguns. And he taught me the same.
with rifles, shotguns, and handguns. And he taught me the same.
I am sure there are things about your father you would rather not reveal. My grandfather never talked about his war time battles. His military officer bearing was impeccable even when he was in t shirt and not donning his uniform.
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DogMan · 61-69, M
Almost every major study has found that Americans use their firearms in self-defense between 500,000 and 3 million times annually, according to a 2013 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In 2021, the most comprehensive study ever conducted on the issue concluded that roughly 1.6 million defensive gun uses occur in the United States every year.
No wonder gun control activists pressured the CDC two years ago into quietly removing those numbers from the agency’s website. But defenders of the Second Amendment should keep shouting the facts from the rooftops, despite efforts to silence us.
Gun Control folks DO NOT want the public to hear about how many lives are saved each year
due to Good Guys with Guns.
No wonder gun control activists pressured the CDC two years ago into quietly removing those numbers from the agency’s website. But defenders of the Second Amendment should keep shouting the facts from the rooftops, despite efforts to silence us.
Gun Control folks DO NOT want the public to hear about how many lives are saved each year
due to Good Guys with Guns.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@DogMan
I don't need to fact check you. I believe what you said. I said that our guns are more associated with killing people. I did not claim that all the people who target shoot or hunt use their guns to kill people.
To associate means to connect things in your mind.
You are way off base FYI 16 million people in America hunt every year. 47 million people participate in target shooting. I am one of them.
I don't need to fact check you. I believe what you said. I said that our guns are more associated with killing people. I did not claim that all the people who target shoot or hunt use their guns to kill people.
To associate means to connect things in your mind.
MasterLee · 56-60, M
Yes