american Treachery

@Munumbis in your dreams
Just as mad as the orange clown 🤡
MATLSOTW

@LeopoldBloom wouldn't ever expect anything less than serial Israel apologism from you, even though you live comfortably in the US south, not Israel

@newjaninev2 It was bound to happen eventually. Hostility toward Israel based on blatant antisemitism has always been present on the far right, and based on sympathy toward the perceived underdog on the far left. Most peoples' understanding of the conflict isn't much beyond images of the IDF killing Palestinian babies being piped to their phones nonstop.

Israel managed to win the 1948 and 1967 wars without US assistance, they will be fine without it in the future if it comes to that. The US will miss the intelligence and technological collaboration, but we survived without that for 200 years.

@BlueGreenGrey Sorry for not conforming to the currently popular Democratic position of "Israel sux."

@LeopoldBloom Yes, which was the justification they gave at the time. And they DIDN'T join NATO, and they still got invaded by Russia, who they already had an agreement with allowing them access to the Black sea.

That pretty clearly showed that Putin wouldn't be deterred by inactivity on their part, and they STILL did nothing, either seeking NATO membership or joining/forming another alliance. I don't blame them for the decision before 2014; I sure as hell blame them afterward.

@Rabscuttle Ukraine wouldn't have been eligible for NATO anyway at the time, due to the corruption and unclear borders.

@LeopoldBloom ...which is why several NATO members suggested that they do so. It's long past time you stopped getting your news from fortune cookies.

@Northwest Exactly... the world is sick of hearing about it, having to deal with it, and particularly sick of being constantly betrayed.

@newjaninev2 The world should do something about it. For instance, pull out of the next G-20 and let Trump enjoy entertaining Putin and Xi on his own. Or stop bottoming for Trump with their constant trips to the White House and stop looking amazed at his helicopter pad. It's fucking granite circle, it's not like it's the Burj Al Khalifa.

@newjaninev2 I struggle to understand why someone living in New Zealand cares about any of this.

The only plausible explanation is your indoctrination. It's not like you can point to anything specific that affects you personally.

You don't like Trump and apparently, you don't like America. So be it.

But your fury and contempt is not warranted based on anything that has happened under the Trump administration.

I stick by my admittedly armchair analysis that you have issues with powerful men. You are simultaneously both attracted and repelled by them. It causes serious cognitive dissonance in your mind and you sooth yourself by lashing out at powerful men and the people that support them.

@Oneofthestormboys Thank you for your politeness and courtesy in your response. Most people just name call, make a strawman argument and walk away when I rebutt.

With respect, I don't think you get my point. You are looking at the last 2 years under Trump and I am explaining to you I am looking at the past 30 years since the Soviet Union collapsed in the late 80s

Since that point, the US has:

Taken the lead on Climate Change. Every 4 years or so, the Elite met to browbeat the BRICS nations into converting their economies to renewables. This has been going on for 30 years. It's gone nowhere. Only the EU is serious about this issue. Everyone else is using it to make things better for themselves, not th world. This is a failure and we need to stop pretending the BRICS nations are going to honor its agreements.

Speaking of China, the US basically promoted the Chinese economy and got them into the WTO and the G7. China has repaid us by undercutting our manufacturing with slave labor, stealing our patents and threatening us on Taiwan

NATO - The US has paid the EU's defense from Russia for the past 30 years. I'm aware the UK has stepped up and is contributing more than other nations for its own defense. Thank you. One of the reasons the EU has such generous social policiies is because we have been paying for their defense since the Cold War.

Immigration: We have a long tradition of welcoming immigrants into this country. That generosity has been exploited by the countries of Latin America, South America, the MENA nations, India, Pakistan, and China. Many many many indigents have flooded the Western nations and taken advantage of our generosity and assistance. We continue to flood our cities with homeless people, who contribute to societal decay and make things worse. We don't NEED immigrants any longer. The Elite and the rich want them because they stoke inflation and expand the economy.

Trump is the response to all this. He is a wrecking ball, and is needed to move the US to its next phase.

The US tax payer has spent the last 20 years asking for less taxes, less regulation, and more money to its citizens. Closing the border, defunding the graft, thwarting DEI, Antifa, and transgender terrrorits are all steps in the right direction.

Are things perfect? Am I thrilled with everything? No.

But if you are interested in continuing this discussion, my question to you is this:

Why do you think Chuck Shumer, Hakeem Jeffries,, and the rest of the feckless Democrats, who have been getting complaints consistently about "DOING NOTHING" are going to make things better?

Because that's what you are talking about. Handing the keys over to the Democrats. It's not like if they take over the House and Senate, they are going to make things better. They will just spend the next 2 years fundraising and investigating the current administration in the hopes they can take the Presidency in 2028.

@SumKindaMunster Seems to me that you need more than 2 political choices then really.
Trust me, it’s going to be bad news for the world if Russia expands again. They’re not your friends and are probably loving the conflict that is raging in the USA. China meanwhile sits at the sides laughing about all the PPE that was bought from them and global chaos that Covid brought.
I’m not sure who mentioned it in this discussion, but it was something along the lines of the U.S. being able to plan ahead, and therefore being able to defend its shores. If that were the case, then 9/11 wouldn’t have happened. The notion of an opposing army appearing over the horizon is largely a thing of the past, as there are far more ways to damage a perceived enemy than by rockets and bombs.
An enemy no longer needs to be physically present on foreign soil to do harm (Covid, political voting interference, satellite technology, AI, internet, false statements and accounting etc etc etc). In my humble opinion (not that it matters one iota), it’s a silly thing to alienate former friends and allies of a likeminded mindset and to adopt an “I’m alright Jack” attitude. The world doesn’t work that way.
It also beggars belief that an important world leader, such as the U.S. president and his entourage can glibly make damning statements that are factually incorrect so frequently.
His case against the BBC floundered when his legal team were (quite rightly) asked:
“Ok, so you’re claiming that you’ve been damaged financially - can we please see the factual evidence of this in your accounts then please?”
“Er, no. Not really”
“Well, why not? That’s what you’ve claimed by bringing this about. Surely you’d want to be proving that your statement is fact? Where did the £35 billion figure you’re trying to sue us for come from?”
“Um, no. Go away. In fact, we’re changing it to you’ve hurt the President’s feelings”

What complete and utter rubbish. How do you think the intelligent people of the world see that? A man that doesn’t want the extent of his wealth to be public knowledge.
So while this moron of a man has conned enough of the American public with his spite and vitriol, the real enemies are rubbing their hands with glee. They want nothing more than western alliances to crumble.
That’s the bigger picture.
If friendships don’t matter, then make America Great Again, but nothing lasts forever, and it’s the tomorrows that matter, not kicking the shit out of each other.
You and I won’t be around when the dust settles on this blotch in history, but our children and descendants will be. That’s the bigger picture, not how many golf courses or hotels you can own. And furthermore, that man doesn’t care if you live or die. He cares about status and power and being told how wonderful he is by the people he pays to do so.
It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.
This whole unholy mess has made me incredibly sad for the future of our beautiful planet.

@Subsumedpat well he is full of shit

@Strictmichael75 yes there is that

@LeopoldBloom the Germans didn't get to hide behind Hitler and americans don't get to hide behind trump.

@newjaninev2 He was elected by around 22% of eligible voters, counting people who could have voted but didn't. However, fair enough, our system put him in power along with giving the Republican sycophants a majority in Congress.

@LeopoldBloom
and the greatest blame falls squarely upon them

@SumKindaMunster It’s absolutely not a sure thing. But Trump has taken the Republican party and made it identifiable with ICE, wars without objectives, high cost of living, weak international policy, government shut downs, trade wars with allies, defunded public bodies, and presidential shit posting. And there’s the rumours of stock market manipulation and the still redacted Epstein files.

There are Republican voters with values and scruples who are between a rock and a hard place. They won’t vote Dem but their own party is now a personality cult to the whim of a single person, rather than a manifesto of conservative policies, which it should be.

@AdmiralPrune All good points.

Let me just say, as an American, we are used to this. It's always a life or death choice when it comes to our elections.

Most of us vote against the party we oppose, instead of voting for the party we support.

"The lesser of two evils" is a very big thing here.

@SumKindaMunster I understand. I think if I were American I’d normally be republican. For every policy I didn’t agree with, there are two I do. But the Trump/Vance/Hesketh cocktail needs to the same treatment as any other cancerous limb would.

Outwardly the Democrats seem unelectable. I honestly couldn’t name a potential Democrat runner. But if the Republicans can’t put some distance between them and the current muppets, people will vote left with their eyes closed thinking anything will do to stop the current situation.