SCOTUS Strikes Again!

I'm kinda with you on this. While I am against the ideals of said businesses, at the end if the day I also feel people have the right to awful ideas and to abide by their awful ideas as long as they aren't actively hurting or infringing on another. Your comfort zone may be a shitty ine but you are entitled to it as long as it isn't violent towards another.

I definitely understand. Every time I hear arguments against gay couples I remember similar arguments against interracial couples (often also based on religious dogma) and think about how I’d feel if new laws were being proposed on that basis. And if someone was doing business while excluding interracial couples, I’d boycott them vigorously, and tell everyone I knew. So I’d do no less for a business who excludes LGBT couples.

I agree that open bigotry should be avoided . With all the bakers available it seems that other forces were at work here with the intent of forcing the couple to violate their beliefs or be punished severely because they dared to not agree with gay marriage , which is their right . I seem to remember some outrageous fines/judgements being levied against the owners of the bakery that were later vacated by a higher court .

I appreciate your post and you make your argument carefully. But I still disagree. Many Christian and Moslem believers disagree strongly with Judaism. Would they be allowed to return to posting signs that say “No Jews or dogs”?

I know you are Drawing a fine point between service at a public accommodation v creating product that espouses a specific view. But it’s not always so easy. How about. Jewish family that goes out for a dinner that is specifically a Chanukah celebration. Could they be refused service because a Christian owner is somehow offended by the notion of a Jewish holiday?

Sorry, Sara, but I agree with your girlfriend on this issue. When a business is open to the public, it should have to serve the entirety of the public, without discrimination. There is no functional difference between putting two groom figurines on the top of a wedding cake versus putting one groom figurine and one bride figurine. The cake maker is putting two figurines at the top of the cake. With a website, the same is true from a functional perspective -- a photo is a photo (whether it has one man and one woman, or two women). A photographer who is open to the public for business would be in violation of anti-discrimination laws if he were to say, for example, that he would only photograph white people, and not photograph black people. The same should be true for sexual orientation. What if the school yearbook photographer refused to take the photo of any students who were openly gay/lesbian? Should those students be excluded from the yearbook because photographing them violated some alleged "religious belief" of the school photographer?

While it is nice to think that the market would crush people who discriminate, it does not always work that way. The market is not a good tool for regulating against discriminatory behavior. This generally isn't a problem in a big city (like Los Angeles, where I live) -- if there is a jerk photographer who refuses to photograph a gay wedding, the couple could hire another photographer. The same is true of a jerk wedding cake maker here in Los Angeles. Given the huge size of L.A., it is not difficult to find multiple different vendors for a particular task. However, in small towns, there may only be a small handful of photographers, wedding cake makers, etc. Thus, a gay couple in a small town may have no options for these services. And every gay or lesbian couple in a small or rural area should not be forced to have to travel to a big city to get married.

The same arguments were made against desegregation -- i.e., that the market would find a way. But in certain areas, no restaurants were willing to serve food to black people. It wasn't reasonable for those folks to never be able to eat a meal out, or only eat out when they travel to a big city, etc.. If a business is open to the public, then they should not be allowed to discrimination on the basis of sex, gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. (i.e., any of the protected classes).

I could go on and on, but I'll leave it at that. I generally agree with you about most things, but on this one, I have to side with your GF. Sorry!

I do not eat FAST FOOD.
I wouldn't support any business that discriminates on racial or religious grounds or LGBTQ+ preferences.

My thought is that Americans are terrifically suit-happy.

And that some people on both sides really enjoy being offended, far more than they enjoy the idea of getting married or of running a successful small business, and it would all be rather better if everyone grewthefudgeup.

Just bake the damn cake, make the damn website. Or don't. But if not, don't expect to get glowing reviews from the rightfully cheesed-off couples whose noses you've left out of joint.

Until recently I would have been inclined to agree. But I feel the culture wars have created an uneven playing field and the artisan baker who selectively discriminates is more likely to find a market niche than see their business disintegrate 😕 For that reason I think governments have a duty to intervene.

If it makes a difference i have two friends who both work at two different chic fil a one in Mississippi the other in Arkansas both are LGBTQ and both are in management at their stores. One is just under the owner/operator the other manages the night shift. So they do not discriminate against lgbtq employees at all.

You don’t have to ask. You know where I fall on this. My freedoms end where yours begin. I’m also kind of a purist when it comes to freedom.

it isnt about cake or photos. its about bending the knee.
apparently gays are incapable of simply employing another baker...... or photographer.

a anti gay business is a risky business model.. LESS MONEY FOR THEM..

nope. we gunna crush and make examples of ppl.

How about we all keep sexuality private?

Businesses can do what they want and so can customers

Voluntary self interest is a wonderful way to bring people together

people are sue happy..would you ask a baker to bake a cake that didn't want to.

I heard of this story

If you don't have freedom of association (business) then you are a slave of the state

TRUMP 2024

I don’t think the State should force works of art or individual creation (or birth).

my lgbtq friends line up for chick-fil-a because it's good and they really don't give a fuck about the politics lol