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Do you approve of this proposed law?

The Kentucky Repubs want to pass a law that will authorize people to legally kill homeless people who set foot on their property.

Republicans Push To Legalize ‘Property Owners’ Killing Homeless People in Kentucky
In Kentucky, politicians are preparing to vote on a law that would authorize the use of force against unhoused people who are found to be camping on private property.

"Republican politicians in Kentucky are rallying behind a new bill that would authorize the use of force—and potentially deadly force—against unhoused people who are found to be camping on private property. The bill would also criminalize unsanctioned homeless encampments and restrict cities and towns from preempting state laws.

The bill, known as the “Safer Kentucky Act,” or HB5, would target homelessness, drug possession and mental illness by drastically increasing criminal penalties for a range of offenses. Introduced last week by Republican state representative Jared Bauman, it already has 52 sponsors in Kentucky’s House of Representatives. A vote is scheduled for this week."

"Advocates are most alarmed by one aspect of the “Safer Kentucky Act” in particular: an anti-homeless provision that would authorize violence by property owners on people camping on their property. The bill says the use of force is “justifiable” if a defendant believes that criminal trespass, robbery or “unlawful camping” is occurring on their property.

In addition, it says that “deadly physical force” is justifiable if a defendant believes that someone is trying to “dispossess” them of their property or is attempting a robbery or committing arson, language that could also have ramifications for tenants overstaying their lease."
https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg54mg/republicans-push-to-legalize-property-owners-killing-homeless-people-in-kentucky

Should this become a law in every State or should the Repubs be voted out of office forever?

Notice that all a person has to do is "believe" that someone is doing a prohibited act and then he can kill the person without any reprecussions. Of course the Slave Patrol approves of that and even says that it doesn't go far enough.

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novaguy2u · 70-79, M Best Comment

It is obvious from the comments here that many people have experienced acutely hard times. It is to their merit that they have overcome their past issues. However, if the proposed law had been in force at the times of their travails, they may not have been here to pass on their experiences. The proposed law would seem to legalise murder, with no risk of legal backlash. The US would seem to be slowly slipping into a state of anarchy if politicians can propose and endorse laws such as this. Ultimately, it would seem, survival will be determined by who has the fastest draw or the biggest gun.

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Penny · 46-50, F

@Diotrephes i think this is a ridiculous accusation

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@Penny

i think this is a ridiculous accusation

I can give lots of examples.

JSul3 · 70-79

@Penny Had the J6 insurrectionists been blacks, we would have been counting the bodies for weeks.

If you think that the majority of those who will be shot and likely killed, will be white, your need some mental help.

HootyTheNightOwl

Well... that's one way to eradicate homelessness.

The thing is that the homeless already have next to no rights as it is. What's the difference between a homeless person sitting on the pavement outside the bus station and me being in crisis sitting on the pavement outside the bus station??? I don't have a sleeping bag with me and I have an address to give the cops.

Instead of killing homeless people, why not just give them a legalised place to camp - then they won't be needing to trespass in order to find somewhere safer to pitch up camp at night. As it stands, we treat the terrorist brides and children of Al Qaeda better than we treat the homeless. Give them a safe, tented compound with sanitation, fresh water and food rations funded by United Nations - and I think the homeless would feel like all their Christmases had come at once.

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Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@HootyTheNightOwl I'm glad that you were able to recover from your bad times. Not everyone can do that.

NativePortlander1970

@HootyTheNightOwl That sounds like the situation I was in briefly in December 1991, I was staying in a small shelter in the Methodist Church in Tigard, Oregon, west of Portland, out by 8am, allowed back in at 6pm. They at least kept provisions for us to make lunches for when we went out and daily bus passes for public transportation. They had a laundry room and private showers and toilets so we could be presentable in public and had employment resources. But yes, I understand the cold, the winters in NW Oregon are rainy and chills you to the bone.

HootyTheNightOwl

@NativePortlander1970 I was out by 8am, allowed back after 4pm. I didn't get any provisions... not even information of safe and warm places to go during the day. There was no laundry facilities in the hotel (not even a line over the bathtub) or in town... and I had no one I could ask to launder my clothes.

I didn't get much rain, but the temperature felt much lower with the wind chill and being under dressed. I "chose" to go back and risk getting raped again over spending December and Christmas out there on the streets... I couldn't afford clothes to keep warm - and I knew that it was going to get colder before it warmed up again.

Mamapolo2016 · F

It seems clear to me that anybody who favors such a law cannot be trusted with it.

Penny · 46-50, F

im pretty sure in at least one state people can kill any trespasser without legal offense.I think that would make more sense as a law as opposed to targeting the homeless.

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Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@Penny im not reading that lol @Penny

Well it's just a short civics lesson with the basic idea that if a person is alleged to have committed a crime the person has the right to a courtroom trial where his guilt and punishment can be determined, rather than be lynched by a mob. The proposed Kentucky law seems to be allowing "lynchings" and not following constitutional law.

Penny · 46-50, F

@Diotrephes shooting a trespasser is not the same as a lynching. if trespassing is the crime you dont need proof. youhave proof if they are on your property already

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@Penny

shooting a trespasser is not the same as a lynching. if trespassing is the crime you dont need proof. youhave proof if they are on your property already

Sure it's the same because in both instances, the actor takes the law into his own hands and deprives the victim of his human and civil rights.

specman · 51-55, M

Good law to deter trespassing. Protect yourself from squatters too.

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MethDozer · M

@specman Dude, you think it's cool to shoot homeless people and the neighbor knocking on your door.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@MethDozer

Dude, you think it's cool to shoot homeless people and the neighbor knocking on your door.

Chances are this guy regrets being trigger happy =

Swift justice Jury takes less than an hour to convict NY homeowner of murdering motorist who accidentally pulled into his driveway

"An upstate New York homeowner was found guilty Tuesday of fatally shooting a young woman who accidentally pulled into his driveway last spring.

Kevin Monahan, 66, was convicted of second-degree murder after less than an hour of jury deliberation following a two week trial over the slaying of 20-year-old Kaylin Gillis."
https://nypost.com/2024/01/23/news/ny-man-kevin-monahan-found-guilty-of-murdering-kaylin-gillis/

specman · 51-55, M

@MethDozer I personally wouldn’t shoot them unless they were attempting to do me serious bodily harm. I wouldn’t just shoot them. A reason would be if I feared major bodily harm.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

IMO, this is a complex issue but is this the path that the country should venture down? Wouldn't it be a denial of everything that American society supposedly values and believes in?

JSul3 · 70-79

@Diotrephes Shoot first....ask questions later.
It works for rogue cops....now it would work for rogue citizens.

joe438 · 61-69, M

It sounded insane, so I assumed the summary was taken out of context. I found the original text of the bill.

It describes illegal or street camping and says that a homeowner can use force to defend themselves against aggressive campers. It DOES NOT say that you can go into your backyard, find a homeless person sleeping under a tree and shoot them. You can ask them to leave and if they become aggressive and threaten you, you can use reasonable force to protect yourself.

I don't know what the legal situation was before that this law is attempting to clarify, but perhaps the problem was that if someone camped out on your property you couldn't make them leave. I'd hope that the law isn't encouraging people to confront randoms on their property at the point of a gun.

----------------

"(c) The commission of unlawful camping in violation of Section 17 of this Act,4
when the offense is occurring on property owned or leased by the defendant,5
the individual engaged in unlawful camping has been told to cease, and the6
individual committing the offense has used force or threatened to use force7
against the defendant.8
(2) The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable9
under subsection (1) of this section only when the defendant believes that the10
person against whom such force is used is:11
(a) Attempting to dispossess him or her of his or her dwelling otherwise than12
under a claim of right to its possession; or13
(b) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary, robbery, or other felony14
involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to15
KRS 503.055, of such dwelling; or16
(c) Committing or attempting to commit arson of a dwelling or other building in17
his or her possession.18"

JSul3 · 70-79

@joe438 If you shoot and kill a homeless person on your property, how will you ever know if the person used aggressive/threatening behavior?
The person is dead....and the only person providing details is the shooter.

This is like the instances where a person goes to the wrong house....knocks on the door....and is shot and killed by the homeowner, who says they were afraid for their lives.

Just like rogue cops who shoot unarmed people, many times killing them....and all they have to say is 'I was fearful for my life'....case closed.

joe438 · 61-69, M

@JSul3 That's true. I'm wondering what the situation was before anyone thought this law was necessary. I know property owners here in MA who spent years in court getting squatters out of houses. The social environment here in the Boston area is that people tend to call the police rather than deal with aggressive people themselves, but allowing people to defend themselves against aggressive people doesn't seem unreasonable on the surface. I would agree there will be abuse - you could shoot a sleeping person and then say later that they pulled a knife.

JSul3 · 70-79

@joe438 Am in TX. Many years ago, a neighbors house was broken into. Nobody home....nobody hurt.

I spoke to one of the officers, and he told me this: "If you shoot somebody standing on your porch, you better drag them inside the doorway of your house before you call us."

I guess the laws have changed since then. Now it is shoot first, ask questions later.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@SW-User

It would be so easy to house everybody. The ratio of empty houses to homeless people is seven to one.

Say you are homeless in Los Angeles but that you could get a "free" house if you moved to Jackson, Mississippi. Would you do it?

There's more to it than just having a roof over your head. It has to be where the person wants it to be and then there's the problem of utlities, furniture, transportation, insurance, etc.

I've never been homeless but I regard it more as a personal problem that has to be solved by the affected individual than as society as a whole. Do you think that the homeless should become wards of the State (like slaves) in order to make a living?

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Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@SW-User

I just might.

All ideas start with just one person and countless people have made their ideas into reality. If you persist you might be able to convert a lot of people.

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uncalled4 · 56-60, M

Nothing wrong with protecting yourself; I feel like criminals of all kinds are coddled in this country. But, there are certain issues I would have:
--If people are constantly trespassing, increase the penalty and let them stand trial for it. That's what the judicial system is for. I think they forgot that part??
--The mentally ill don't need prosecution; they need help, which they will not get under any circumstances.
--It's bad enough that justice is meted out by the courts, now they want to put it in the hands of the public? Am I missing something here?

I feel for both the homeless AND people whose property values and personal safety are affected by crises such as these.

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uncalled4 · 56-60, M

@Umile Thanks. There are no easy answers!

uncalled4 · 56-60, M

@SW-User Np.

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Vin53 · M

This law would turn the border into a 12 month open hunting season on people. No bag limit.

BLP11520 · 61-69, M

Deadly force must be justified

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Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@NativePortlander1970

The same law has been passed in Texas, Florida, Arkansas, Alabama, and other red states, Kentucky is merely the latest.

Those other States have "stand your ground" laws. The Kentucky proposed law seems to exceed that and would allow people freedom to murder others simply by saying that they "believed" their victims were trespassing.

"Advocates are most alarmed by one aspect of the “Safer Kentucky Act” in particular: an anti-homeless provision that would authorize violence by property owners on people camping on their property. The bill says the use of force is “justifiable” if a defendant believes that criminal trespass, robbery or “unlawful camping” is occurring on their property. "

"In addition, it says that “deadly physical force” is justifiable if a defendant believes that someone is trying to “dispossess” them of their property or is attempting a robbery or committing arson, language that could also have ramifications for tenants overstaying their lease."
https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg54mg/republicans-push-to-legalize-property-owners-killing-homeless-people-in-kentucky

NativePortlander1970

@Diotrephes Ah Vice, a leftist rag that loves to blow shit out of proportion.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@NativePortlander1970

Ah Vice, a leftist rag that loves to blow shit out of proportion.

Well, the good thing is that you can always find more sources =

Criminalizing homelessness? No teacher raises? It’s all part of GOP’s bigger plan for KY | Opinion

Read more at: https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/linda-blackford/article284353354.html#storylink=cpy

Louisville Republicans unveil 'Safer Kentucky Act,' a sweeping bill aimed at public safety
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2024/01/09/general-assembly-2024-house-bill-5-safer-kentucky-act/72155365007/

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/CommitteeDocuments/8/28195/6.%20Safer%20Kentucky%20Act.pdf

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

If killing is going to be completely legal then it is wrong to deprive any American citizen of gun rights for any reason whatsoever.

The Repubs want to see rivers of illegal aliens' blood flowing right now.

Arizona GOP advances bill legalizing killing undocumented migrants on suspicion of trespassing
22 hours ago
"Arizona Republicans are advancing a bill that would allow people to legally kill someone accused of attempting to trespass or actively trespassing on their property.

The big picture: The legislation, which is expected to be vetoed if it reaches the state's Democratic governor, would legalize the murder of undocumented immigrants, who often have to cross ranches that sit on the state's border with Mexico."
https://www.axios.com/2024/02/27/arizona-gop-bill-rancher-migrant-kill

SteelHands · 61-69, M

I knew of a secks worker in a tough part of the urban jungle. Homeless drug addict guy stabbed her in the lung heart and kidney.

He felt he had a right to kill her because she objected to him wanting to take over the (warm) spot she did business from.

She lived because it was chilly enough she didn't immediately bleed out. She should have had a weapon of her own because she had a good 5 seconds awareness he was coming at her.

At least she provides a net positive to society. The drug addict just goes around killing and robbing people. He got away but if she woulda got him right like she might now, the world would be a better place. Next time she'll shoot and I'm okay with that.

Laws that don't even keep the ground you stand on safe are kinda useless I think.

Zeusdelight · 61-69, M

So if things get too hard just eliminate the problem. No more visible homelessness or visible mental issues, a safer society.

Next the unemployed then . . . who?

NativePortlander1970

@Zeusdelight [media=https://youtu.be/K0LLaybEuzA]

Zeusdelight · 61-69, M

@NativePortlander1970 Thanks, Never heard of it. An amazingly simplistic view of the world - but horrific too.

NativePortlander1970

@Zeusdelight You're so very welcome, there's like two or three sequals, each as horrifying as the first.

thisguy20 · 41-45, M

If all a person has to do is believe that someone is doing a prohibited act and then he can kill the person without any repercussions; then anyone can kill any politician they want without any repercussions.

Spoiledbrat · F

If they're a threat. No one should be on your property. It's private.

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NativePortlander1970

@Diotrephes Leftist indoctrination

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@NativePortlander1970

Leftist indoctrination

Are you renouncing the American creed?

JSul3 · 70-79

@Diotrephes The 'backside' pf American history is unknown by many....and ignored by many more.

SW-User

I approve of any law giving power to people. By "people," I mean those who aren't judges, police officers, lawyers, and so on.

The truth is that such laws are rare. In every case, there must be something for the authorities to gain.

In Russia, a man was released after serving only six months in prison for killing his friend for being a pedophile. Where I currently live, he would be called unreasonable, and kept in prison for a very long time. Is the U.S. going that way too?

Roundandroundwego · 61-69

Of course not. Let's admit we should house everyone if we do not expect this kind of thing, though. Human rights and government responsibilities begin with things like housing and education.
But killing is so sexy for the murkans, we expect you to be sighting in your guns using tents. Hope you hit a middle class pregnant professional just camping.

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Roundandroundwego · 61-69

@SW-User NY city spends more removing the homeless each year than it might cost to house us permanently. It's a typical American city.
Getting rid of me costs you more than housing me would. I understand it's no accident.

Ontheroad · M

In as few words as possible: This is murder, but then again, it's the MAGA group.

SteelHands · 61-69, M

Turn homesteader food grower into a homeless people?

Make a person that doesn't know how to provide for a nations food supply into a landed pot grower?

That's how 50 million people in China and 50 million people in Russia starved in the 20th century.

Now you want that in the USA?

I got no chickens in that scrap as for me I'll just keep my ammo dry and my smokehouse full.

DailyFlash · 56-60, M

Would these proponents also be "Pro-Life"?

BLP11520 · 61-69, M

I live in Oklahoma you can’t just shoot who you want

Torsten · 36-40, M

easy solution to this and that is stay the hell out of others property. It aint hard to do

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MethDozer · M

@Torsten Not posted nobody knows.

Still, no justifiable right to just kill someone. That's psychotic

Torsten · 36-40, M

@MethDozer never said its justified in most cases. If its the law though (like it already is in some places), im just saying there is a easy way to avoid it and thats to stay off of others property

Zeusdelight · 61-69, M

@Torsten "At times" in courts, means that the owners can't agree, the surveyors cannot agree, the lawyers cannot reach an agreement and then the Judges are stumped. That may be rare, but it happens.

Most people think they know their property lines, but the disputes indicate they are mostly wrong.

Most people buy a piece of land and assume what they have bought is correct.

It is a stupid ignorant law.

JSul3 · 70-79

So much for any punishment for shooting an unarmed person.....govt approved legalized murder.

Have we, as a 'civilized society' truly regressed to this? Evidently.