Black Lives Matter is a RACIST movement. Racism goes both ways!
Just saying.
56-60, M
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hartfire · 61-69
I disagree with the first statement.
Black Lives Matter is first about achieving equal treatment for African Americans by police. The USA's own government statistics show that for a very long time, Black Africans have consistently been targeted, violated and murdered by police without legal justification or provocation - and the police have gotten away with it in the courts.
Working out the relative statistics requires bearing in mind that 13% of Americans descent from African ancestors.
If there was no racism, one would expect to see that police violations of law against African Americans represented close to 13% of the total.
The reality is close to 50%; thus African Americans are three times more likely to be murdered by police than Americans of European descent.
Secondly, if there were no racism, one could expect to find that 13% of workers in every type of job are African Americans. Instead, we find that there African Americans are far fewer in jobs requiring higher education and responsibility, such as professors, high court judges, medical specialists, scientists and high-level politicians. Of course they are some, but just not in proportionally equal numbers. Since there is no lack of ability, the reasons must stem from lack of opportunities, and a large part of this is likely to be due to low socio-ecomonic status in childhood which makes it far harder to get a good start. This is where racism at a systemic level starts and is perpetuated - and it will continue until money is invested in better education and opportunities.
On your second statement. Racism can cut both ways. It is not unusual for an oppressed group to feel profound hatred towards their oppressors.
Any intelligent person would realise that that on its own would be a good reason to develop systems designed to ensure that racist crimes are punished and that other forms of unequal treatment cannot occur.
I hope there are black activists on this site who will respond to the question.
Clearly there are many people who either don't understand the issues and realities, or haven't yet read the US government's own crime statistics.
Black Lives Matter is first about achieving equal treatment for African Americans by police. The USA's own government statistics show that for a very long time, Black Africans have consistently been targeted, violated and murdered by police without legal justification or provocation - and the police have gotten away with it in the courts.
Working out the relative statistics requires bearing in mind that 13% of Americans descent from African ancestors.
If there was no racism, one would expect to see that police violations of law against African Americans represented close to 13% of the total.
The reality is close to 50%; thus African Americans are three times more likely to be murdered by police than Americans of European descent.
Secondly, if there were no racism, one could expect to find that 13% of workers in every type of job are African Americans. Instead, we find that there African Americans are far fewer in jobs requiring higher education and responsibility, such as professors, high court judges, medical specialists, scientists and high-level politicians. Of course they are some, but just not in proportionally equal numbers. Since there is no lack of ability, the reasons must stem from lack of opportunities, and a large part of this is likely to be due to low socio-ecomonic status in childhood which makes it far harder to get a good start. This is where racism at a systemic level starts and is perpetuated - and it will continue until money is invested in better education and opportunities.
On your second statement. Racism can cut both ways. It is not unusual for an oppressed group to feel profound hatred towards their oppressors.
Any intelligent person would realise that that on its own would be a good reason to develop systems designed to ensure that racist crimes are punished and that other forms of unequal treatment cannot occur.
I hope there are black activists on this site who will respond to the question.
Clearly there are many people who either don't understand the issues and realities, or haven't yet read the US government's own crime statistics.
bijouxbroussard · F
@hartfire That’s correct. Where there is poverty there tends to be more crime. And there tends to be poverty because of systemic racism and past disenfranchisement going back generations. That is fact.
hartfire · 61-69
@bijouxbroussard I agree with you Bijoux. I feel so distressed seeing so much ignorance in some people's attitudes here.
I would like somehow to get the message across, but feel like I'm failing.
I know some people just don't want to admit that there is racism because if one is part of a racist group it brings on a sense of shame - one that is acutely uncomfortable and very difficult to handle. People go into denial to avoid feeling this feeling.
But in exactly the same way that an alcoholic must acknowledge the addiction before being able to do an inventory of his (or her) offences while drunk - our societies need to understand and see the enormity of racist behaviours and systems before we can begin to reform them.
Specific instances and processes have to be spelled out and shown. That's what made the recent death of George Floyd so compelling. It was shown and it went viral so everyone could see and hear it. No mistakes. No hiding from the reality.
Then the examples of all the others killed in similar circumstances comes out - and the long list of names written on the road - so long you need the height of a skyscraper or a helicopter to read it.
If this isn't working to convince the deniers, then we need even more graphic telling and showing of every case.
To Kill a Mockingbird opened the eyes of America.
We need at least twenty films detailing all the different kinds of racist crimes, showing the structural and systemic nature of it close-up, showing the emotions and the trauma.
People need to be reached where their hearts and humanity are.
It is not okay for any minority group to be disadvantaged and then repeatedly blamed for the consequences of the disadvantage and the intergenerational trauma.
I would like somehow to get the message across, but feel like I'm failing.
I know some people just don't want to admit that there is racism because if one is part of a racist group it brings on a sense of shame - one that is acutely uncomfortable and very difficult to handle. People go into denial to avoid feeling this feeling.
But in exactly the same way that an alcoholic must acknowledge the addiction before being able to do an inventory of his (or her) offences while drunk - our societies need to understand and see the enormity of racist behaviours and systems before we can begin to reform them.
Specific instances and processes have to be spelled out and shown. That's what made the recent death of George Floyd so compelling. It was shown and it went viral so everyone could see and hear it. No mistakes. No hiding from the reality.
Then the examples of all the others killed in similar circumstances comes out - and the long list of names written on the road - so long you need the height of a skyscraper or a helicopter to read it.
If this isn't working to convince the deniers, then we need even more graphic telling and showing of every case.
To Kill a Mockingbird opened the eyes of America.
We need at least twenty films detailing all the different kinds of racist crimes, showing the structural and systemic nature of it close-up, showing the emotions and the trauma.
People need to be reached where their hearts and humanity are.
It is not okay for any minority group to be disadvantaged and then repeatedly blamed for the consequences of the disadvantage and the intergenerational trauma.
@hartfire Yes, there are a lot of black victims of police violence. Which is terrible and needs to stop. Police have done some horrible things and they need to be held accountable.
But...Harassing and threatening whites is not the way to fix racism. Saying that until black lives matter, no lives matter is not the way. If this was JUST about police brutality then the slogan should have been "All Lives Matter" not "Black Lives Matter." The movement became about race and black people being racist against others when they chose to make police brutality specifically abut blacks and not about police brutality.
Finally with regards to your reasonings about poverty leading to the higher crime rate statistics for those of African descent.
Blacks make up 13 percent of the U.S. population but commit over 50% of all homicides. While it is true that blacks also make up about 40% of all homicide victims, your statement about poverty being a contributing factor is not necessarily true. While a higher percentage of the African American population lives in poverty (a total of 8.9 million) there are substantially more whites experiencing poverty (15.77 million) than blacks.
Of the 38.1 million U.S. citizens who live below the poverty income level over 40% are white. Only 20% are black. That means, that if we justify poverty as a reason for committing a crime, we still have a smaller portion of the population committing over 50% of all homicides in the U.S. If poverty is the primary contributing factor why are 20% of those experiencing poverty committing over 50% of the homicides? Poverty in and of itself is not a genuine reason for those numbers.
What may be a contributing factor is where they are living in poverty. Not all states in the U.S. provide the same type and level of financial assistance to people living in poverty.
7.6 percent of all Asian Americans living in the U.S. are below the poverty limit also, and the total Asian population represents only 5.6 percent of the U.S. population BUT Asian Americans with a similar poverty rate to African Americans represent 7.2 % of bachelors degrees awarded in 2018. While Africans with their much larger population only represented 10.2% of bachelor degree graduates in 2018. If poverty were the primary factor affecting educational opportunities, we'd be seeing a lot less Asians graduating from college in the U.S. just because there are 3 times as many blacks in the U.S. as there are Asians. If discrepancies in education were due to racism (Whites discriminating against non-whites) then Asians would be facing the same problems as blacks with proportionally lower graduation rates. As it stands, even with federal assistance, more than 40% of African Americans who start a college degree program drop out.
Yes, our poor communities need help but the statistics don't support systemic racism
across the U.S. as being the reason for the inequalities between blacks and whites in our society unless that systemic racism is specifically targeting black and no other minority races.
But...Harassing and threatening whites is not the way to fix racism. Saying that until black lives matter, no lives matter is not the way. If this was JUST about police brutality then the slogan should have been "All Lives Matter" not "Black Lives Matter." The movement became about race and black people being racist against others when they chose to make police brutality specifically abut blacks and not about police brutality.
Finally with regards to your reasonings about poverty leading to the higher crime rate statistics for those of African descent.
Blacks make up 13 percent of the U.S. population but commit over 50% of all homicides. While it is true that blacks also make up about 40% of all homicide victims, your statement about poverty being a contributing factor is not necessarily true. While a higher percentage of the African American population lives in poverty (a total of 8.9 million) there are substantially more whites experiencing poverty (15.77 million) than blacks.
Of the 38.1 million U.S. citizens who live below the poverty income level over 40% are white. Only 20% are black. That means, that if we justify poverty as a reason for committing a crime, we still have a smaller portion of the population committing over 50% of all homicides in the U.S. If poverty is the primary contributing factor why are 20% of those experiencing poverty committing over 50% of the homicides? Poverty in and of itself is not a genuine reason for those numbers.
What may be a contributing factor is where they are living in poverty. Not all states in the U.S. provide the same type and level of financial assistance to people living in poverty.
7.6 percent of all Asian Americans living in the U.S. are below the poverty limit also, and the total Asian population represents only 5.6 percent of the U.S. population BUT Asian Americans with a similar poverty rate to African Americans represent 7.2 % of bachelors degrees awarded in 2018. While Africans with their much larger population only represented 10.2% of bachelor degree graduates in 2018. If poverty were the primary factor affecting educational opportunities, we'd be seeing a lot less Asians graduating from college in the U.S. just because there are 3 times as many blacks in the U.S. as there are Asians. If discrepancies in education were due to racism (Whites discriminating against non-whites) then Asians would be facing the same problems as blacks with proportionally lower graduation rates. As it stands, even with federal assistance, more than 40% of African Americans who start a college degree program drop out.
Yes, our poor communities need help but the statistics don't support systemic racism
across the U.S. as being the reason for the inequalities between blacks and whites in our society unless that systemic racism is specifically targeting black and no other minority races.
Fallenfromgrace · F
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Fallenfromgrace · F
@RodneyTrotter I have no problem with those that actually work and want to do something with their lives ,I have a problem with those who don't
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OMEGA · M
Racism goes EVERY way.
Not every individual is racist, but when it comes to every race as a whole, the same cannot be said since racist individuals exist in all of them...Racism comes from every race and is directed towards every race.
Trying to absolve one's race of being racist by claiming one's race isn't racist, but another's race is, is indeed racist in itself.
Racist individuals come in EVERY colour and shade, towards every colour and shade...
Not every individual is racist, but when it comes to every race as a whole, the same cannot be said since racist individuals exist in all of them...Racism comes from every race and is directed towards every race.
Trying to absolve one's race of being racist by claiming one's race isn't racist, but another's race is, is indeed racist in itself.
Racist individuals come in EVERY colour and shade, towards every colour and shade...
OMEGA · M
@RodneyTrotter They incite and utilise racism and encourage lawlessness and violence... The Fed Gov. ought to step in and shut down such groups.
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mangobear · 26-30, F
@RodneyTrotter Oh shoot, sorry my grammar bothered you! I should have typed in layman's terms for someone who's uneducated.
User41 · 36-40, M
I’m finding that to be the case too.
My mom was filmed and verbally harrased by a group of BLM protesters 2 weeks ago for having an American flag face mask on in a nursery.
She’s about 110 lbs and a soft spoken women who teaches special needs kids, and often Mexican Americans who don’t know English yet. She’s not a racist.
The experience worried her so much she called me the other day to ask me something I never thought I’d hear from my mom.
“How do I buy a gun and where do I go to learn how to use it”
My mom was filmed and verbally harrased by a group of BLM protesters 2 weeks ago for having an American flag face mask on in a nursery.
She’s about 110 lbs and a soft spoken women who teaches special needs kids, and often Mexican Americans who don’t know English yet. She’s not a racist.
The experience worried her so much she called me the other day to ask me something I never thought I’d hear from my mom.
“How do I buy a gun and where do I go to learn how to use it”
BeefySenpie · M
I don't think the movement is, but I do think many actions supposedly in support of the movement were reckless, law breaking and had nothing to do with the movement. In fact I'd go so far as to say it took away from the movement
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OMEGA · M
@SW-User Ah yes, Self-proclaimed Marxists ... All those donations they bilked out of people and certain corporations have gone to the campaign of Biden and democrat candidates... They've been doing this since 2013.
quitwhendone · M
@RodneyTrotter You've been watching too much Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson. 🙄🤦♂️
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Benjr134 · M
@RodneyTrotter Every time I hear or see someone say that BLM movement is racist, and are confronted with ‘what about white supporters’ rhetoric. They all say the same thing ‘ Those whites are far left extremists, brainwashed by snowflake liberals to the extent that they are prejudiced against their own nation.’ This is what I call brainwashing. So it’s either not a thing or not a thing.
4meAndyou · F
Preach, Rodney! BLM is a Marxist group. They are, most of them, reverse racists. Read their website, and their stated goals are Marxist goals.
One of their founders went down to Venezuela to observe the totalitarian government of Nicholas Maduro, and she was photographed there. She said, at the time, that it was a pleasure to talk politics with people who made sense.
So don't be fooled by them. They are Marxist revolutionaries being USED, as communists normally USE useful idiots,by huge communist governments, billionaires, and globalists.
Why the black people? Because if ANYONE of any other color criticizes what they are doing, they can say they are racists.
One of their founders went down to Venezuela to observe the totalitarian government of Nicholas Maduro, and she was photographed there. She said, at the time, that it was a pleasure to talk politics with people who made sense.
So don't be fooled by them. They are Marxist revolutionaries being USED, as communists normally USE useful idiots,by huge communist governments, billionaires, and globalists.
Why the black people? Because if ANYONE of any other color criticizes what they are doing, they can say they are racists.
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Rose0415 · 36-40, F
Maybe in your country it is, but here in the United States it's very different.
4meAndyou · F
@RodneyTrotter There is a massive amount of confusion in the United States between the words themselves..."black lives matter"...and the Marxist organization BLM. Black lives DO matter, and I don't pretend I was not shocked half to death and sickened when I saw what happened to George Floyd on television. I couldn't even bear to be here on SW because it hurt my very soul to have seen that.
But when BLM and antifa started infiltrating the really peaceful and good intentioned protesters and overlaying their agenda with their own Marxist agenda, removing police...that was NOT smart. Not even a little bit.
We had an eight year old little girl in Atlanta killed by gun violence because there are so few police now. She was just sitting next to her Mom in a car. No one is even mentioning her name...no one. HER life doesn't matter to BLM.
But when BLM and antifa started infiltrating the really peaceful and good intentioned protesters and overlaying their agenda with their own Marxist agenda, removing police...that was NOT smart. Not even a little bit.
We had an eight year old little girl in Atlanta killed by gun violence because there are so few police now. She was just sitting next to her Mom in a car. No one is even mentioning her name...no one. HER life doesn't matter to BLM.
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4meAndyou · F
@Stereoguy And the democrat media refuse to mention it. All the deaths...a 205% increase in deaths from gun violence in NYC. You know why? Because that a-hole DiBlasio is married to a black Marxist and his daughter is a member of BLM. She was actually arrested for violence during a protest.
Whipped by his wife and daughter DiBlasio has now disbanded the plainclothes detectives crime unit in NYC, and that is exactly when crime shot up.
PART of the Marxist plan is that citizens become terrorized by the criminal element. BLM wants ALL criminals removed from jail.
Did you know the billionaires, globalists, and enormous communist/capitalist governments are heavily involved with the drug cartels, or ARE the drug cartels? The drug empires are so enormous now...and with a country that loves law and order, they will not thrive here.
Whipped by his wife and daughter DiBlasio has now disbanded the plainclothes detectives crime unit in NYC, and that is exactly when crime shot up.
PART of the Marxist plan is that citizens become terrorized by the criminal element. BLM wants ALL criminals removed from jail.
Did you know the billionaires, globalists, and enormous communist/capitalist governments are heavily involved with the drug cartels, or ARE the drug cartels? The drug empires are so enormous now...and with a country that loves law and order, they will not thrive here.
bijouxbroussard · F
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xSiFiGamer2016x · 26-30, M
@xSiFiGamer2016x Hey. I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this. I agree that the idea behind the movement, to reduce police brutality, is not racist. But BLM isn't saying "all lives matter even if they are criminals or suspects to police" they are saying BLM. And when people try to tell them "all lives matter" the response is inevitably that "no lives matter until black lives matter" and "stop trying to negate the crimes against blacks". This IS a racist movement because 52% of lethal force deaths are against white people. Only 32% are against blacks.
Considering that 52% of homicides are committed by blacks (not to mention other violent crimes that blacks have the majority statistics for), that's a huge discrepancy. Yes, those percentages are skewed per population demographics toward blacks, but they are grossly skewed towards whites with regard to the level of violence used for the type of crime they have committed. Blacks actually see less lethal force instances per percentage of violent crimes committed by blacks. Why?
I say this, as a woman of mixed heritage being of partially black descent. BLM is racist. It should be about police brutality, excessive force, and how the system has failed all those who have died. Not about the color of their skin.
Considering that 52% of homicides are committed by blacks (not to mention other violent crimes that blacks have the majority statistics for), that's a huge discrepancy. Yes, those percentages are skewed per population demographics toward blacks, but they are grossly skewed towards whites with regard to the level of violence used for the type of crime they have committed. Blacks actually see less lethal force instances per percentage of violent crimes committed by blacks. Why?
I say this, as a woman of mixed heritage being of partially black descent. BLM is racist. It should be about police brutality, excessive force, and how the system has failed all those who have died. Not about the color of their skin.
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xSiFiGamer2016x · 26-30, M
@RodneyTrotter Only a moron would think this way. This problem you have is in YOUR country, but not mine. If you was here, you wouldn't say it to anyone's faces. 👌
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Loygan11 · 36-40, M
@RodneyTrotter I’m sure it is haha you need to get kicked in the nuts about 50 times by some black people
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Rose0415 · 36-40, F
@RodneyTrotter As I said, maybe that's how it is where you live, but here in the United States there are mature adults who are doing this thing peacefully and not causing any problems. Have some gone too far? Of course, but not all.
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