Was America ever great?

@AthrillatheHunt And is therefor 'bunk'?

@whowasthatmaskedman
The reason the USA lost their war with North Vietnam was because the US military was incompetent at jungle warfare, no matter how much military hardware the US threw at the North Vietnamese.

The reason the USA lost their war with Afghanistan was because the US military proved itself to be incompetent at mountain warfare as well, particularly against a seemingly invisible enemy who lived in caves and carried 50 year old rifles, but who also carried cellphones and had internet capability within the mountain ranges of Afghanistan. There are vast areas of rural American flatlands throughout the American midwest TODAY which STILL do not have internet access nor cellphone service.

The reason WWII ended in part, was because of the added benefit of American-made hardware which eventually appeared on the scene, but WWII was also brought to a close just as you've previously stated, "from the support of the locals" ...whom most civilized Nations of the free world still refer to as "The Allied Forces of World War II" which you somehow forgot to mention in your equation.

@swirlie I think that is what I said. American military might became useless in the jungle and without local support. It is a fact America has the power to "win" any war it starts withing 30 minutes by simply turning the country into radioactive glass. ( Lets not pretend they would never do it..) Where the support of the locals is in play there is intelligence gathering, sabotage and resistence. This was apparent all over europe in WW2. Once it was not , the fighting got much harder in Germany itself, even though the German war machine was alread on its knees and starved of supplies of everything. In Korea is was a proxy war between (mostly) the US and the chinese. And that ended in a draw.. Your point on Americas lack of cell phone and internet is well made, if not in point. A nation as densely populated and rich should have pretty much a full coverage there..If the government was effective, it would. 😷

@swirlie The OP questioned was America ever great.
You brought the men dressing as women into the discussion.

@JSul3 Yes, I am aware of those issues, and I agree that they're serious.
If it helps, the USA is not the only nation suffering in those same ways. Every Western country is experiencing significant increases in racial, economic, educational, and justice system divides.
This means the problem is not unique to the USA's sytems and must stem from something that all Western countries share in common.
We could dig deeper to discover which non-democratic countries suffer the same problems - and we might find that it has little to do with government and more to do with issues such who really controls the reins. I may be that a combination of media empires and multinational corporations are acting in tandem to ensure that governments give them favourable taxes and laws - at the expense of the people.

If the promise of "freedom, liberty, equality, and justice for all" defines whether "America is great", then one would have to argue that the USA has never fulfllied its promise. And that the struggle to do so is hobbled by the structure of the electoral college. Perhaps this point deserves wider discussion.

Since no country has ever achieved such a moral Everest, one might need to ask far more fundamental questions.
Humanity has not experienced relative egailtarianism since the time of gatherer-hunter societies.

No freedom can exist without each individual accepting full responsibility for choices and actions.
No liberty can exist for without the restraint of causing no harm to others.
No equality can exist without defining exactly what equality means. (I propose it means an equal right to the means to health and wellbeing.)
No justice can exist without creating the means to prevent corruption and bias - which might mean regularly changing the guards and surveillance.

I would propose that the ideal of the pursuit of happiness is foolish and actually leads to greater suffering. Life intrisically contains periods of discomfort, discontent, illness, pain, loss and old age. The idea of attaining or even long-lasting state of happiness is literally impossible (unless you're a Buddha).

@swirlie
I didn't offer a personal connotation of the word great: I quoted the dictionary.
"Extent, amount or intensity" are measurable quantities.

Katherine the Great was not great for any moral qualities or achievements.
Think of any country that has been named great, and there is none that is or was rekowned for its moral goodness. Perhaps America believed it led the world in democracy: it never did.
The only great moral good to come out of the US (that I know of) is the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. It was Eleanor Roosevelt who first broached the idea and then pushed and organised for it to come into being.

If individuals are proclaimed great, it is usually for specific (and measurable) achievements - such as those who win Nobel or Pulitzer prizes.
Even those who are deemed morally great - such as Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Mandela or Suu Kyi - are not always great in their personal lives at home. They usually pay a huge price in not being able to be good with their families at home.
I'm not sure whether one can or should judge whole nations with the same scales as one uses for individuals. The scales need to take into account that excellent outcomes on small and locals scales often fail on larger ones.

As for the USA's status on the world stage, it still has considerable economic and cultural force.

It is true that many people around the world have a poor view of the USA's govt, diplomatic, economic and cultural influences and behaviour.
But if one views self-esteem as dependent on the views of others, then one is doomed.

A healthy self-esteem comes from living, acting and relating in accord with one's values.

To the world at large, it appears as though America cares most about money and power; and that its moral claims are little more than hot air.

The problem is that the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts.
Since no human is exempt from flaws and mistakes, no human system can be exempt either.

The most any country can do is a kind of constant housekeeping, improving systems, trying to prevent messes, and mopping up when they occur.

@val70; Thanks for the heart. You sound like a person one could have a civil but interesting discussion with. I do have biases but am open to exploring them.

At 50-55 you're not 'older': If you're no wiser you need a different excuse :).

@val70 And trust me in return: It gets worse. The weird, sort of magic thing is that there's a nominally superior part of my brain that sees how silly all the lower parts are; even though its attempts to smarten or bring them to heel are futile.

@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout The US was built by rich white men....using cheap labor/slaves....for rich white men.
Manifest Destiny, anyone?
That legacy has stood the test of time.
The country is racist...and still is....but it was veiled to a degree, and hidden in the dark and under rocks, but now is out into the bright sun light for all to see.

History has shown that the US was never keen on having immigrants come seeking a new life here....but for many reasons, they continue to come, seeking a dream that often is denied to them.

Freedom, liberty, and justice for all.....well, it depends. Wealth and power rule the day...and equality is still more of a dream and not a reality yet. We have a legal system, not a justice system, and the law is not applied equally to all. It took a century for women to get the right to vote. Civil rights are being eroded. Freedoms are for those in power as they set the rules on what freedoms the rest of society gets.

The struggle for the more perfect union continues.

@Fukfacewillie You're a dear

@swirlie I'm not poor at all.

@swirlie I can assure you, I'm neither. Thank you.