Was America ever great?

@hartfire Because the promise of freedom, liberty, equality, and justice for all has not been fulfilled....the struggle for 'a more perfect union' continues.

There are racial divides, economic divides, educational divides, and justice system divides.

@hartfire
You are misrepresenting the definition of "great" by equating it's definition to that of a quantitative value, such as one glass containing a greater volume of water than another glass of equal size. When quantitative value is used as a measure relative to something else, that has nothing whatsoever to do with "extent, amount or intensity considerably above average" which you are otherwise using to support your apparent perception of the USA's status on the world stage.

Just because a male transvestite who dresses in women's clothing looks more magnificent and more socially conscious and better dressed than the average woman in the room, does not make that man a woman no matter how many pairs of high heels he owns. The USA is no different as viewed on the world stage.

@swirlie Kaitlyn (Bruce) Jenner says 'Hello!'

@JSul3

I don't know who that is.

@swirlie Do a simple web search.

@swirlie OK lazy....Bruce Jenner is a famous Olympian.
He 'transitioned' to female.
He is a hard core right wing conservative.
I wonder why the Trump Cult seems to ignore, not recall...or not know who she is.
Now...hit a few stokes and read about her on the web.

@JSul3
Why would I bother? What does your post have to do with my post? Please state the relevance of bringing your buddy Bruce Jenner into this discussion?

@swirlie You mentioned men dressed as women.
Now that could simply mean you were referring to cross-dressers and not transgender people.

The Trump side makes a big deal over transgender but they have the poster child for it in their own Kaitlyn Jenner, formerly known as Bruce Jenner.

@JSul3
Again, what relevance does your post have to mine? If all that your simple mind can focus on is transgendered people, then you've completely missed the entire point of this thread, let alone the point of my own post to it.

@swirlie The OP questioned was America ever great.
You brought the men dressing as women into the discussion.

@JSul3 Yes, I am aware of those issues, and I agree that they're serious.
If it helps, the USA is not the only nation suffering in those same ways. Every Western country is experiencing significant increases in racial, economic, educational, and justice system divides.
This means the problem is not unique to the USA's sytems and must stem from something that all Western countries share in common.
We could dig deeper to discover which non-democratic countries suffer the same problems - and we might find that it has little to do with government and more to do with issues such who really controls the reins. I may be that a combination of media empires and multinational corporations are acting in tandem to ensure that governments give them favourable taxes and laws - at the expense of the people.

If the promise of "freedom, liberty, equality, and justice for all" defines whether "America is great", then one would have to argue that the USA has never fulfllied its promise. And that the struggle to do so is hobbled by the structure of the electoral college. Perhaps this point deserves wider discussion.

Since no country has ever achieved such a moral Everest, one might need to ask far more fundamental questions.
Humanity has not experienced relative egailtarianism since the time of gatherer-hunter societies.

No freedom can exist without each individual accepting full responsibility for choices and actions.
No liberty can exist for without the restraint of causing no harm to others.
No equality can exist without defining exactly what equality means. (I propose it means an equal right to the means to health and wellbeing.)
No justice can exist without creating the means to prevent corruption and bias - which might mean regularly changing the guards and surveillance.

I would propose that the ideal of the pursuit of happiness is foolish and actually leads to greater suffering. Life intrisically contains periods of discomfort, discontent, illness, pain, loss and old age. The idea of attaining or even long-lasting state of happiness is literally impossible (unless you're a Buddha).

@swirlie
I didn't offer a personal connotation of the word great: I quoted the dictionary.
"Extent, amount or intensity" are measurable quantities.

Katherine the Great was not great for any moral qualities or achievements.
Think of any country that has been named great, and there is none that is or was rekowned for its moral goodness. Perhaps America believed it led the world in democracy: it never did.
The only great moral good to come out of the US (that I know of) is the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. It was Eleanor Roosevelt who first broached the idea and then pushed and organised for it to come into being.

If individuals are proclaimed great, it is usually for specific (and measurable) achievements - such as those who win Nobel or Pulitzer prizes.
Even those who are deemed morally great - such as Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Mandela or Suu Kyi - are not always great in their personal lives at home. They usually pay a huge price in not being able to be good with their families at home.
I'm not sure whether one can or should judge whole nations with the same scales as one uses for individuals. The scales need to take into account that excellent outcomes on small and locals scales often fail on larger ones.

As for the USA's status on the world stage, it still has considerable economic and cultural force.

It is true that many people around the world have a poor view of the USA's govt, diplomatic, economic and cultural influences and behaviour.
But if one views self-esteem as dependent on the views of others, then one is doomed.

A healthy self-esteem comes from living, acting and relating in accord with one's values.

To the world at large, it appears as though America cares most about money and power; and that its moral claims are little more than hot air.

The problem is that the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts.
Since no human is exempt from flaws and mistakes, no human system can be exempt either.

The most any country can do is a kind of constant housekeeping, improving systems, trying to prevent messes, and mopping up when they occur.