No Free Will

Or we have free will because even if God knows each step we will take we are still given the choice to take it. The struggle within human nature has much to do with "will."
Interesting post. :)

Genesis 3:
8
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9
But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

If God knows everything, then how could Adam and Eve hide from Him? Why does God call out "Where are you?" He clearly doesn't know where they are hiding - QED: God doesn't know everything.

This is a direct quote from the Old Testament Bible that shows God isn't all seeing and all knowing.

Don't get confused. Just because God [u]knows[/u] what will happen, doesn't mean we don't make our own choices. He didn't make us to be robots. We're responsible for our own actions. It is we who make our choices, not God.

The flaw in you theory is this: You confuse God's omniscience with a duty on his part to act.

You have choice. Free will. You can choose not to go to work tomorrow. You can choose which team you think'll win this weekend, you can choose to hurt someone or help them, you can choose to put up with where you live or relocate. Your life is full of free will. It's [i]all [/i]free will.

But you think God - who's supposed to be able to see everything coming - is the one responsible to act on your behalf. And why? To save you pain? To avoid a harsh truth? To keep from being damaged in some way? Not all painful lessons are bad; in fact, they're often our best teachers.

And just how is it you presume to know the mind of God, what He should do or whether he's acting to his fullest capacity?

You have free will. Each and every day, and with every freely made choice comes another portion of the road. Maybe, just maybe, you destiny isn't known to anyone or anything until it unfolds in that moment.

Honestly, the "why does God let bad things happen if he knows everything" argument is fairly remedial.

[quote]I truly believe that there is no free will. [/quote]

Okay.

[quote]To me free will means we choose our path/destination in life.[/quote]

Free to choose it and make it if possible, in spite of obstacles which we must overcome, given our physical, mental, intellectual, geographical, temporal etc. circumstance.

[quote]Free will would give us the choice to choose to go left or right when a fork appears in our road of life.[/quote]

So, if it is my will to change your will am I free to do that? I could incapacitate you. I could sabotage your efforts, I could get rid of the fork. If there weren't any fork in the first place would you still be able to consider it? Could you make your own fork?

[quote]However God is supposed to be all seeing and all knowing, which i believe in.[/quote]

Why do you believe it? Can I convince you otherwise? Can God make you disbelieve it? If so, how?

[quote]So if God is all seeing and all knowing God already knows which path each of us will take. If God knows which path we will take than we have no free will because God already knows which path we will choose.[/quote]

How does God knowing which path you choose determine your choice?

[quote]If you claim that you have free will and your path isn't already chosen than you can not claim that God is all seeing and all knowing. [/quote]

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, please? You still have made the choice, not God. And you still have to determine what all knowing and all seeing means and if the Bible describes God that way. Which, by the way, you have the choice of doing and may even choose the wrong answer.

[quote]And by your point of view, God doesn't know all and see all, which would thus make God cease to exist.[/quote]

You're making a few silly assumptions. God doesn't know or see all but that isn't any reason to determine he doesn't exist, nor is it reason for him in fact not to exist. At the least it is an example of your exercise of free will independent of God's existence or lack thereof.

[quote]This is of course the most simplest way to state what free will is but if you spent half a second thinking about it you'll realize I'm correct.[/quote]

I'm free to disagree.

[quote]If you disagree you're either closed minded or too ignorant to think it through[/quote]

Oh, well, then, why didn't you say so.

Why can’t both be true? Lets assume that God is omniscient, and you are not. He gives you free will, so you get to choose to do something or not. I don’t think God knowing in advance what you will choose necessarily negates your free will. If I was clairvoyant and wrote down the next choice you will make, does that mean you don’t have a choice? No. You still get to choose whether I have foresight or not.

So if someone finds something else from life, we are closed-minded and ignorant? Seems very closed-minded and ignorant itself, sorry. Can you even define free will?

I can spend a half of a second thinking, and in truth, more than half a life doing things against the grain while loving. I don't need my findings to line up with yours, and the username given subject suggests trolling... but have fun, tell me where I should have more faith?

Hiss.

@Entwistle My God doesn't exist in a way wherein a force or human-like agent would stop anything. The Universe is free flowing and the choices we make at each step determine our own outcomes and the outcomes of others. In that way, man is dependant on each other for happiness and peace.

I see only one closed mind here...

[quote]However God is supposed to be all seeing and all knowing, which i believe in. So if God is all seeing and all knowing God already k ows which path each of us will take. If God knows which path we will take than we have no free will because God already knows whoch path we will choose.[/quote]

Why? this thinking is the base of your misunderstanding..

God foreknowing what i am going to do does not mean i did not decide to do what i am going to do..

[quote] If you disagree you're either closed minded or too ignorant to think it through[/quote]

The proud cannot be taught.. They are limited by their own limited understanding..

Many physicists thought they'd shown there's no free will by proving the existence of deterministic physical laws. Meanwhile, back in the bio lab, animals and people were busy proving the existence of animals with free will who can influence outcomes.

I hate religion.

"Of course we have free will because we have no choice but to have it."

Christopher Hitchens

I agree that we have no free will.
Coming from a Buddhist point of view there is no self..therefore there is no self to have free will.

I like God , He gave me free will and many beautiful things 😎

[quote]This is of course the most simplest way to state what free will is but if you spent half a second thinking about it you'll realize I'm correct. [/quote]

i thought about it for half a second and...idk

I just LOVED the last sentence.

Your argument assumes that God is consumed by the dimension of 'time' (like humans are). God is everywhen, as well as everywhere. It's not that our decisions are predestined, it's just that He is already at every point in time, so knows what we chose before WE experience that point in time.

If we really had free will we could choose to take both forks of the road at the same time. But free will is an illusion. We think we have free will because we have options between several choices. But true free will would give us ALL choices.
Also the physical laws of nature are mechanistic above the quantum level and inhibit free will. Genetics, brain patterns all FORCE us to do and act in ways they determine.
And those are even without bringing religion into it. If you include theism then in order for God to be all knowing he must know all outcomes like you say here. But it also prevents him from being all powerful or having free will of his own as he would never be able to tell or pick a future he does NOT already know. Thus omnipotent and omniscience are paradoxical and incompatible within the same being. And if God can not be both at the same time he is not a god. Therefore no gods exist in addition to free will not existing.
Of course there can be lesser beings that can claim to be and/or are considered gods by their followers but it literally makes all gods false gods.

Even if there's no God, free will is an illusion. We do what our genetics program us to do.