If you actually read the Bible and actually read Paul and remember he was a pious Jew you come to the inescapable conclusion from his writings he believed in the Truine God. It is quite obvious to anyone who reads them. All this junk your writing is just merely confusion@BibleData
A Pharisee like Paul would only use the language Paul uses of Jesus to refer to Yahweh. You don’t appear to understand that with your western mindset@BibleData
Here Jesus alone can forgive your sins. Listen carefully to what he says and then what he did to prove it. This story settles the question for good, Yes Jesus IS GOD!
MARK 2
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, [b][c=BF0000]“Son, your sins are forgiven.”[/c][/b]
6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming!Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them,[b][c=BF0000] “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” [/c][/b]12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”
Jesus Calls Levi and Eats With Sinners 13 Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14 As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.
15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Jesus Questioned About Fasting 18 Now John’s disciples and the Pharisees were fasting. Some people came and asked Jesus, “How is it that John’s disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees are fasting, but yours are not?”
19 Jesus answered, [b][c=BF0000]“How can the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? [/c][/b]They cannot, so long as they have him with them. 20 But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and on that day they will fast.
21 “No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse. 22 And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins.”
Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath 23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”
25 He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26 In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”
27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 [b][c=BF0000]So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” [/c][/b]
[b]REVELATION 19[/b]
“Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! [b][c=BF0000]For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.[/c][/b] 8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”
9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: [b][c=BF0000]Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!”[/c][/b] And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
Some Christians do not believe in the Trinitarian Godhead. Some believe the God, The Holy Ghost and Christ were all the same being rather than three separate entities. In the sense that a person is one being but has different roles to play as child, husband, and father. The concept of the Trinity is one of the major reasons why Muslims believe Catholicism and Christianity in general is a pagan religion.
@BibleData That could be a religion besides Christianity. Michael means “Who is like God?!”
SW-User
"In every particular is the universal" (an insight found throughout our world's faith traditions) In that sense Jesus was God.
The implication of "In every particular is the universal" is that the revelation of God's love can be found anywhere, anytime, anyplace, according to the uniqueness of every individual human being (i.e. every particular)
A catholic scholar, Heinrich Dumoulin, has written.....
[i]Whether, on its deepest ground, being is personal or impersonal, is something that humans will never be able to plumb by their rational powers. Here we face a decision which one makes according to one's own tradition and upbringing, and still more according to one's faith and experience. The Christian sees ultimate reality revealed in the personal love of God as shown in Christ, the Buddhist in the silence of the Buddha. Yet they agree on two things: that the ultimate mystery is ineffable, and that it should be manifest to human beings. The inscription on a Chinese stone figure of the Buddha, dated 746, reads:-
"The Highest truth is without image. If there were no image at all, however, there would be no way for truth to be manifested. The highest principle is without words. But if there were not words at all, how could principle possibly be revealed?" [/i]
Therefore there must be "images" and "words". Sadly, they tend to divide us.
Let us walk with those such as James Joyce....
Walk with his creation.........Molly Bloom, who said "YES" to life in all its particulars.
[b][c=BF0000]“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me[/c][/b], and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 [b][c=BF0000]“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches.[/c][/b] I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
18[b][c=BF0000] I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.[/c][/b]
20 He who testifies to these things says,[b][c=BF0000] “Yes, I am coming soon.”[/c][/b]
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.
@Carazaa I don't understand why you use the scriptures you use. Perhaps you could explain how you interpret Revelation 22 and why? It doesn't seem to say anything about Jesus being God.
Various people speak throughout the book of Revelation. The Alpha and Omega is always Jehovah, not Jesus.
@LordShadowfire [quote]Ooooh, are we once again saying that quotes from books are evidence? Because I've got rock solid evidence for the existence of Batman.[/quote]
The Bible is evidence of what the Bible says about God, Jehovah and his son, Jesus Christ.
@BibleData Revelation 22 is Jesus own words[b][c=BF0000]. I am coming soon and my reward is with me. Whoever adds to these words I will add the plagues of this book (hell) and whoever takes away from this book I will take away the rewards of this book (heaven)[/c][/b]
Soon after the founding of the world - katabole as the ancient Greeks had called it - came the kingdoms of men with rivers of blood. This division was first created in the lifetime of a primitive forefather all but forgotten who was called Peleg. (Genesis 10:25) He lived in the time of the first of the kings of men, who was called the Sumerian Dumuzi, or Tammuz and Nimrod in the language of old. Nimrod founded Accad, Babel and Calneh in the land of Shinar. (Genesis 10:8-10; Ezekiel 8:14) From the tower the people scattered all over the Earth.
History became legend and legend became myth.
So, after the flood, Nimrod established his kingdom, including Babylon.
So, when was Adam created? 4026 BCE. The flood? 2370. Peleg lived from 2269-2030and the separation at the tower of Babel occurred there.
Moses started writing Genesis 1513.
So how many years did the myths of Tammuz, aka Nimrod, who's symbol was the first cross, the mystic tau, and other stories that were handed down from Bible times have to spread all over the globe? The flood. Giants, the cross etc. All that stuff comes from Babylon.
@BibleData The Sumerians came before the Babylonians, and wasnt the flood of the Younger Dryas more like 10 500 BCE? Also ...what about Gobekli Tepe ? - its dated as pre 9000 BCE.
I Think your dates may need reconsidering .
Different religious and ancient cultural texts can vary in dating our history. I mean, the Sumerian Kings List names 8 kings who ruled over a 241 000 year period ....and thats just one literal example. The vedas tell of a time 9000 years ago, which has been matched with geoarcheological and astrological charting of that era.
Not to mention, does it truly matter what Jesus is? If one believes in the divine, in the oneness of the universal power and spiritual growth and enlightenment: isnt it more about [i]your [/i] truth ?
@BibleData I did miss your response. As far as the authorship of the Holy Bible there was absolutely no pagan influence. As far as Jesus on the earth before his birth , there are at least two documented appearances in Genesis and Daniel.
Your twisted theology is so twisted as to be a joke. Jesus said He was Yahweh. John explained that Jesus was The Thought of God. The Father being the Will of God and the Spirit being the Essence of God.
@hippyjoe1955 Well, wrong again. I'm not a flat earther. "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22)
My claims don't refute themselves and neither do you refute my claims. You're an ideologue. Not at all interested in Jehovah God. Just your fake imitation. Tradition.
@fakable [quote]the problem... what are you talking about? it's a private opinion on your posts.
get it?[/quote]
No. I don't. If I were interested in a private opinion on my post the headline would read something like "What do you think of my post?"
It wouldn't have many words because it wouldn't need them. I could write many words on what I perceive to be wrong with my posts but I'm not interested. Yet here we are talking about that instead of what the post is about. Don't try to reason your way around all of that.
As it turned out I'm not interested in that subject.
@revenant 😂...neither do i. Everyone at work talks about football, gossip, and Facebook . If i even gave tjem a hint about what i think about they would prolly look at me like im mad🤦♀️ i know, coz i tried once, and all i got was blank incomprehensible looks🤷♀️.
Ever feel like you spend more time walking around your own mind than in reality coz its more interesting ?😏
@OogieBoogie oh yes..lol......serious and absorbed expression in the supermarket and wondering where on earth this name of the can of peas could have come from...
Positively certifiable 😊 but totally agree with you : lots of convos around are so boring and predictable...😌 there is only my son I know whose mind goes kind of crazy like mine.😊 He wants to discover the secret of the world and resume it in 2 words..
The sort of nonsense which is above is obvious to someone who reads the new Testament properly because of course Jesus claimed to be God and that’s why they crucified him. A cursory reading of the new Testament will tell you that. You can’t have it to ways. Jesus claimed to be God and was the Messiah who took the sin of the world upon him self. That is Christianity. If you don’t like it God does not force you to believe
Jesus came to save HIS people. If you listen to His prayer in the garden, you can see that Christ came for the elect, and not for the whole world. Only those whom God had “given Him”.
Yes but Ephesians is talking about an elect peopke cf Israel not individual salvation. You are look8ng at things with a 16th century mind not a first century Jewish one@puck61
I didn’t bother to read everything. You make your first part outrageously charged. There is a Trinity. Jesus is God and not in the manner of Moses who was called “a friend”. The shedding of blood from Jesus offers a chance of Salvation for all humankind.
@Pfuzylogic [quote]I didn’t bother to read everything. [/quote]
No one ever does.
[quote]There is a Trinity.[/quote]
Of course there is. The problem did the Jews who were awaiting a messiah and the early Christians believed the trinity applied to that messiah.
So, where, historically, can the trinity be found.
Hint. Think of Plato. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triad_(religion)
[quote]Jesus is God and not in the manner of Moses who was called “a friend”.[/quote]
Here God calls the judges of Israel gods. Jesus quoted it when the religious leaders of his day were upset for him thinking a man could be a god. Moses was called God (Exodus 4:16 Hebrew lelohim, Greek theon, Latin Deum; Exodus 7:1 Hebrew elohim, Greek theon, Latin Deum).
@BibleData The Trinity is derived by the combination of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit being one God. There are many examples of all three in the New Testament. Actually there are examples of Jesus in the Old Testament doing God’s business.
God does not exist as any humanoid entity - god is a man-made concept for everything that humans cannot understand purported by religions (primarily the Christian ones) to encapsulate all that in a singular being aka the Mormon 'pearl of great price'. God can not be either male or female in humanoid terms, therefore God can neither be referred to as 'he' or 'father' as much as 'she' or 'mother'.
@Mathers I read both parts of the collection of stories you call the Bible. I am fully allowed to call it a sham if I choose to. You can't handle that another person thinks different to you.
I can handle it. Especially when they talk rubbish like you do . I happened to have studied history and ancient history. I also had to have studied science as well. As a result I know you’re talking nonsense@zonavar68
@Mathers No, I haven't. If Jesus and Jehovah are the same I want to know it. You can't find the true God without truth. You can't invent your own truth. You are blinded by the traditions of men.
God can't die. Jesus died.
Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”
1 Corinthians 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.”
1 Peter 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!”
John 1:18: “No one has ever seen God.”
[sep]
[b]The New Encyclopædia Britannica[/b]: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). ... The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. ... By the end of the 4th century ... the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.
[b]The New Catholic Encyclopedia [/b]: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
[b]The Encyclopedia Americana[/b]: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, onthe contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol.XXVII, p. 294L.
@SW-User Tell you what. Read the portion of it that is, to you, a suitable length and see if you can come up with some reply. Otherwise be quiet and let the grown ups talk amongst themselves.
SW-User
@BibleData ok daddy whatever you say, “Grown up” 😏😩
It is simple. Humanity is depraved. only through the blood of Christ can the elect of God be saved from the desolation we deserve because every imagination and thought of our heart is only evil continually.
@puck61 [quote]It is simple. Humanity is depraved. only through the blood of Christ can the elect of God be saved from the desolation we deserve because every imagination and thought of our heart is only evil continually.[/quote]
I'm sorry. To me that sounds like a bumper sticker slogan. It doesn't have any real meaning. It certainly doesn't do anything to answer Romans 6:7 or Acts 24:15.
@BibleData Then why didn’t you just leave it at that? I get that you’re a skeptic and admire how deep you delve into your cause (as most skeptics do), but all those other words get jumbled and lost in translation when you could just state your opinion and move forward.
@Pinkstarburst I'm a believer, though I'm skeptical by nature. So, my opinion isn't that relevant other than the small part it may play in the process.
@Maggimay The New Catholic Encyclopedia: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” - (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
@BibleData thats very deep into Catholicism and its past midnight here. Way to over my head for this time of night.
So in saying that... As lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep; His Love to guard me through the night, And wake me in the morning's light amen.
I think itd be more helpful if you were concise in your arguments.
Not everyone reads this site from a computer screen, many are on their phone. This ammount of text is not only daunting for some, but literally difficult to physically read for others with eyesight problems or forms of dyslexia.
Perhaps pose your question, then use your examples when debating with memebers.
So much reasoning at once, with so many examples, makes responding difficult as theres too much at once to reply to.
Js🤷♀️
(The edit was: i spelt dyslexia wrong....which is ironic😅)
Your welcome
