I can't WAIT until meat-substitutes become the norm rather than the exception, can't you?

@helenS

I think you're mistaking the rates at which we consume meat for the enjoyment of meat...

@NodandaWink Yes, 250,000 years ago. Now, where we have that large brain, we can use it and stop eating much meat. Some high quality "organic" meat from time to time is ok, in my opinion.

@helenS That's an avoidance tactic. I was addressing your assertion that love of meat is learned and not a natural impulse. I described one reason why science believes it is wired into our DNA and you changed the argument to be about whether or not we can do something different with that drive. Weak.

@Pikachu Well how do you know bugs don't feel pain as well, 😎they are living "beings" too!? They run when you try to kill them as well. The color of them isn't what confused me, 🤔so I don't know why you said THAT?! No I won't teach my kids to eat bugs, you can have our share!🦠🦂🦟🐛

@Peaches I had a uncle who was a scientist and used claim there wasn't a clear dividing line between plant and animal life. Apparently there are some marine creatures who could be viewed as either. I'm not a vegetarian ( have been since the age of eight ) for logical reasons but for aesthetic. The idea of eating flesh and blood does not give me an appetite. Its only comparatively recently that environmental issues have provided another reason. Having said that, there is a difference between cutting a chicken's throat (maybe half-cutting as I've seen happen) and pulling a head of lettuce. That's my view; you're more than entitled to yours.

@alan20 Well I'm talking about bugs right now!!!🤣

@BlueVeins

Yeah one would hope.

@ArishMell

[quote]but cannot see the point of making something resemble meat so it can be eaten by those who choose not to eat meat![/quote]

Because meat is [i]gooood[/i]. We love it.
So the point of making something to resemble meat which is [i]not[/i] meat is that we can then enjoy the thing we enjoy without having to take a life in order to do it.

[quote] I am not against that in principle. We did evolve as omnivores![/quote]

Evolution tells us how we developed, not what is moral.

@Pikachu It was really easy for me. If you watch enough on you tube about animail cruelty in the food industry you might change your mind. I was never a big meat eater anyway.

@Cutiepi23

That's the sad thing. Like many people, i think i've seen enough of that kind of thing to know there's some fucked up bullshittery going on there.
But i still eat meat.

@Pikachu I cant even look in a butchers shop. Its seems sad to see bits of cut up animails lying around to be bought. Its ailen to me.

@Piper

Cooked animals are undeniably tasty...which is why i'm pleased that they're getting so much better at reproducing those flavours and textures.

@Johnblackthorn

So there's a difference between bad for you and not as good for you.
Are these meat substitutes bad for you?

@Pikachu yes there is a difference between not as good for and bad for, as far as I'm aware the meat substitutes are not bad for you as long as you're getting the vitamins not found in plants b12 being one of the most important ones.

@Johnblackthorn

That's my understanding as well.

@DudeistPriest

I've tried many meat substitutes. They range from meh to fuckin yum!

@EnchantedArtist2

I hope!

@redredred

There are better and worse meat substitutes out there🤷🏻

@redredred he said, apparently unaware of the fact that commercial dogfood is typically made from animal flesh.

@BlueVeins
lol

@JaggedLittlePill

[quote]We aren't taking lives of animals for the sake of it. They are a food source.[/quote]

Well first, that is NOT the only reason we eat animals. It's not just because they are a food source, it's because we like to eat their meat.

Aside from that, that's exactly what i'm talking about here.
If we can produce an alternate, equally as enjoyable food source which does NOT rely on taking life, why wouldn't we embrace that?

@Pikachu You still take life from plants. They are living things. I think if people watched plant behavior in time lapse more they would see things differently. You would see that plants are slower so we don't regard them as living and striving to survive. They absolutely do!
I understand a sustainability argument but would say that the problem with the way we raise our meat is grain feeding. If you simply grazed your animals in the field, possibly planted with wild grains and other grasses it creates padturland that is good for our environment.
Creating mono-culture of crops isn't really good either. Another way to adddress sustainability 8s vertical farming. Do away with sprawling farms and grow indoors. A controlled environment needs no pesticides and uses less than 1% of the water. There are so many things thst can be done if you are serious about it.

@NodandaWink

Definitely. I was waiting for someone to make this point.
But the fact is that we MUST ingest organic matter in order to survive. So if we've got to eat something alive, it seems that plants are better than animals.
That is of course a value judgement.

@LvChris

I don't understand what you're saying.

....this is not about [i]fooling[/i] yourself or anyone else. The point is not to convince yourself that you're actually eating an animal.

The point is that you can enjoy the thing you enjoy without taking an animal's life to enjoy it. What do you have against that? What does that have to do with making "grownup" choices?

@LvChris

It's not what i have to do. I still eat meat.
It's what i [i]want[/i] to do because it seems incontestably morally superior.

I wish you would answer my questions:

[i][c=#BF0000]What do you have against enjoying what we enjoy about meat without killing an animal?
What does that have to do with making "grownup" choices?[/c][/i]

If you're content to leave the discussion here then so be it.
Seems unsatisfying to me...

@Pikachu You could be right about the rate of development.

I remember one of the first, a soya "mince", looked like hardboard sawdust and even when cooked properly, looked like cooked hardboard sawdust and was pretty well tasteless.

I think I certainly try it, if only out of curiosity, but I still prefer my food to be honest, not pretend, whether meat or vegetable.

@ArishMell

[quote] I still prefer my food to be honest[/quote]

I don't get this.
It's not a lie. It is what it is and what it is, is a plant-based substitute which has the taste and texture of meat.
Should it be more important that a food be "honest" than that it should help us stop killing animals to eat their flesh?