Top | Newest First | Oldest First
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
It was an election so tight that any one single factor would have won it:
1) Hilary's bad GE campaign
2) The DNC treatment of Bernie pissing off half the base.
3) The Comey intervention on the email story.
4) Hillary's weakness as a candidate.
5) Bigger, deeper and broader trends in American society, politics, and economics.
It's not a surprise to me that Russia interfered in this election. We still don't know the extent, let alone the impact it had but sure... it could have been decisive.
Trump has been catfished by the Russians. Such an unreliable blowhard who had no previous connections to the American state would be of no use to Putin for information or insider dealing. So I don't think 'collusion' or 'treason' are things which have happened. As regard Don Jnr's meeting with the lawyer; there is no reason for the Russian secret services to orchestrate it other than to implicated the Trump clan. And implicate them they did because the Trump's have no qualms about working with a foreign government or no qualms about anything else because they are a family of gangster capitalists who see the law as something to be manipulated or ignored. Though that had no bearing on any Russian election interference either way.
I think the main reason that Trump fired Comey (aside from total stupidity) is to keep the FBI away from the family finances. It's in the Michael Wolff book and it makes sense given what we know about the family history. Trump is not a master manipulator but dodgy salesman who is way over his head and perhaps he is being used.
Nonetheless, Trump has been a hawk as regards Russia. He has sent arms to Ukraine and bombed Assad's forces in Syria. I believe that this is partly because of the neo-con Republicans who influence him and partly to distance himself from collusion with Putin.
This brings me to my biggest worry; that he might escalate a war to save his own skin. Russia is a military power but is much weaker than the USA and Trump is someone who hates being humiliated. As the investigation tightens its grip, I can imagine him being tempted to do a manly act of aggression to show who is boss and to get American institutions on his side. 9/11 gave an American President the scope to get away with a lot.
I despise Trump and would be pleased by his downfall but I think people should keep a sense of perspective. The Russia gate thing is important but it also has cold-war echoes that could impact foreign policy in a VERY dangerous way. My own 'Safe European Home' would be on the first line of nuclear Armageddon.
Whilst its right to attack Trump for this, I think people should also want to maintain peaceful relationships between great powers. Some of the American media have praised Trump for his hawkishness and I see that as very dangerous. Remember also, that America has meddled in lots of elections before, including Russian elections.
1) Hilary's bad GE campaign
2) The DNC treatment of Bernie pissing off half the base.
3) The Comey intervention on the email story.
4) Hillary's weakness as a candidate.
5) Bigger, deeper and broader trends in American society, politics, and economics.
It's not a surprise to me that Russia interfered in this election. We still don't know the extent, let alone the impact it had but sure... it could have been decisive.
Trump has been catfished by the Russians. Such an unreliable blowhard who had no previous connections to the American state would be of no use to Putin for information or insider dealing. So I don't think 'collusion' or 'treason' are things which have happened. As regard Don Jnr's meeting with the lawyer; there is no reason for the Russian secret services to orchestrate it other than to implicated the Trump clan. And implicate them they did because the Trump's have no qualms about working with a foreign government or no qualms about anything else because they are a family of gangster capitalists who see the law as something to be manipulated or ignored. Though that had no bearing on any Russian election interference either way.
I think the main reason that Trump fired Comey (aside from total stupidity) is to keep the FBI away from the family finances. It's in the Michael Wolff book and it makes sense given what we know about the family history. Trump is not a master manipulator but dodgy salesman who is way over his head and perhaps he is being used.
Nonetheless, Trump has been a hawk as regards Russia. He has sent arms to Ukraine and bombed Assad's forces in Syria. I believe that this is partly because of the neo-con Republicans who influence him and partly to distance himself from collusion with Putin.
This brings me to my biggest worry; that he might escalate a war to save his own skin. Russia is a military power but is much weaker than the USA and Trump is someone who hates being humiliated. As the investigation tightens its grip, I can imagine him being tempted to do a manly act of aggression to show who is boss and to get American institutions on his side. 9/11 gave an American President the scope to get away with a lot.
I despise Trump and would be pleased by his downfall but I think people should keep a sense of perspective. The Russia gate thing is important but it also has cold-war echoes that could impact foreign policy in a VERY dangerous way. My own 'Safe European Home' would be on the first line of nuclear Armageddon.
Whilst its right to attack Trump for this, I think people should also want to maintain peaceful relationships between great powers. Some of the American media have praised Trump for his hawkishness and I see that as very dangerous. Remember also, that America has meddled in lots of elections before, including Russian elections.
View 7 more replies »
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@WoodyAq Hmm... fair point in that one maybe. He has been forced into an anti-Russian position by the deep state and the neo-cons. I think I said something similar up there and I think we agree on that.
Trump does like Putin and he is a nationalist. His views of NATI and the EU are not really about fealty to Putin but ideological affinity. He sees NATO as something which is screwing American interests as a 'bad deal' and he is a nationalist who is against trans-national institutions. I think he would still have done this crazy shit regardless of what Putin thinks.
Trump does like Putin and he is a nationalist. His views of NATI and the EU are not really about fealty to Putin but ideological affinity. He sees NATO as something which is screwing American interests as a 'bad deal' and he is a nationalist who is against trans-national institutions. I think he would still have done this crazy shit regardless of what Putin thinks.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@Burnley123 Thanks for your considered answers and for making some very good points.
Of course the question was rhetorical really , no-one will ever know for sure.
What I do know though is that Putin was caught out in two lies yesterday and both were very telling. He said he didn't even know Trump was in Moscow for the Miss Universe contest , when we know that he did and that there were even plans for the two to meet. He also slipped up by saying he wanted Trump to win and advised his goons to help when he has always previously denied it.
Some analyst believe that the Russians have been cultivating Trump as an intelligence asset from as far back as the early eighties after his first trip to Russia and (probably not) coincidentally around the time when we began to hear his nationalist anti-western rhetoric for the first time. His performance yesterday would indicate that they have been spectacularly succesful in that goal.
Personally I believe that Putin has enough on Trump to destroy him , whether it be the famous video or the amount of debt he really owes and the money laundering that seems to be the main revenue source for his organisation. Putin needs sanctions to be lifted so his gang of thieves can get their money out of Russia and afford them a veneeer of respectability. That's what counts most and that is the quid pro quo for their help in getting him elected. It might be some consolation to the rest of us that their actions , and Trump's continuing idiocy , have now rendered that likelihood almost impossible.
Of course the question was rhetorical really , no-one will ever know for sure.
What I do know though is that Putin was caught out in two lies yesterday and both were very telling. He said he didn't even know Trump was in Moscow for the Miss Universe contest , when we know that he did and that there were even plans for the two to meet. He also slipped up by saying he wanted Trump to win and advised his goons to help when he has always previously denied it.
Some analyst believe that the Russians have been cultivating Trump as an intelligence asset from as far back as the early eighties after his first trip to Russia and (probably not) coincidentally around the time when we began to hear his nationalist anti-western rhetoric for the first time. His performance yesterday would indicate that they have been spectacularly succesful in that goal.
Personally I believe that Putin has enough on Trump to destroy him , whether it be the famous video or the amount of debt he really owes and the money laundering that seems to be the main revenue source for his organisation. Putin needs sanctions to be lifted so his gang of thieves can get their money out of Russia and afford them a veneeer of respectability. That's what counts most and that is the quid pro quo for their help in getting him elected. It might be some consolation to the rest of us that their actions , and Trump's continuing idiocy , have now rendered that likelihood almost impossible.
NoFuxGiven · 22-25, F
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
I don't know. I mean, Russia or not, it's hard to overstate just how much people disliked Hillary. She was a fucking awful candidate.
By the numbers, Trump got less votes than Romney, and Obama [i]crushed[/i] Romney. Even with Trump on the other side, the voters refused to come out for Hillary. In the end, it's not the Russians to blame for that, it's her.
But in any close race, any nudge can have a big effect, so perhaps.
By the numbers, Trump got less votes than Romney, and Obama [i]crushed[/i] Romney. Even with Trump on the other side, the voters refused to come out for Hillary. In the end, it's not the Russians to blame for that, it's her.
But in any close race, any nudge can have a big effect, so perhaps.
Pherick · 41-45, M
@Heartlander She apparently got one question? That doesn't equal getting all of them. She shouldn't have had even on though.
The DNC is the Democratic NC, I do like Bernie, but he is 99% of the time an independent. Why would the DNC give him any real help?
What help could you possibly mean from those people? Comey especially did more to hurt Hillary, with his weird press release just before the election. Strzok and his GF did nothing.
The DNC is the Democratic NC, I do like Bernie, but he is 99% of the time an independent. Why would the DNC give him any real help?
What help could you possibly mean from those people? Comey especially did more to hurt Hillary, with his weird press release just before the election. Strzok and his GF did nothing.
Pherick · 41-45, M
@QuixoticSoul I don't disagree really, Hillary wasn't my choice BUT compared to her opponent she was the obvious choice.
I just have such a hard time with anyone who could be that apathetic. Like Hillary is meh, and trump is horrible, but I don't feel like voting ..
I just have such a hard time with anyone who could be that apathetic. Like Hillary is meh, and trump is horrible, but I don't feel like voting ..
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Heartlander Well, Comey literally cost her the election in the short-term so I wouldn't worry about the almighty Democratic cabal just yet 😂
bijouxbroussard · F
Abrienda · 26-30, F
Exactly what "help" did Russia give Pres. Trump? You in touch with Robert Mueller so you can tell us what it was? Do you have any idea what you are talking about or are you just another mental patient suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome so that small things like "proof" or "evidence" or even "logic" don't matter to you?? Or is it you believe he won because of a few thousand dollars in facebook ads that no one remembers seeing?
BTW...JFK is actually still alive and living on a Pacific Island with the children he had with Marilyn Monroe along with the ones she had by Elvis Presley that he adopted but SSHHHH! Don't tell anyone!
BTW...JFK is actually still alive and living on a Pacific Island with the children he had with Marilyn Monroe along with the ones she had by Elvis Presley that he adopted but SSHHHH! Don't tell anyone!
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@WoodyAq @QuixoticSoul
As far as collusion goes ; I believe his campaign did coordinate and conspire with the Russians and that there is already plenty of prima-facie evidence to support that accusation. I also believe it to be highly improbable that Trump didn't know exactly what was going on and that it was done with both his consent and his encouragement. Of course he's far too shrewd to actually allow himself to be connected to it all directly , and the surety of that knowledge allows him to repaet his 'no collusion' mantra at every opportunity , as was duly witnessed during that absurd spectacle yesterday.
As far as collusion goes ; I believe his campaign did coordinate and conspire with the Russians and that there is already plenty of prima-facie evidence to support that accusation. I also believe it to be highly improbable that Trump didn't know exactly what was going on and that it was done with both his consent and his encouragement. Of course he's far too shrewd to actually allow himself to be connected to it all directly , and the surety of that knowledge allows him to repaet his 'no collusion' mantra at every opportunity , as was duly witnessed during that absurd spectacle yesterday.
WoodyAq · M
@RodionRomanovitch I think that's probably right.
AlmostAnAngel · 100+, F
SW-User
AlmostAnAngel · 100+, F
Ynotisay · M
No. The timing was what shifted the whole thing. And I'm not so sure, after reading the indictments on the Russian military agents, that they completely unsuccessful in some of their specific actions against pollsters and election facilities.
But at the end of the day I blame hypocritical, fear-driven, weak Americans for choosing to turn away from the truth so their little egos could be stroked.
But at the end of the day I blame hypocritical, fear-driven, weak Americans for choosing to turn away from the truth so their little egos could be stroked.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@Ynotisay I'm not entirely convinced either thet they didn't manage to alter voting totals. There seems to have been almost no detailed investigations into that , apart from blanket denials.
Ynotisay · M
@RodionRomanovitch We've been told all along that they didn't access actual booths and totals. But after reading the indictments I'm starting think twice about that too.
Mindful · 56-60, F
HE didn’t DIdnot win the popular vote. The pro Trump and anti Hillary rhetoric was mostly populated by the hackers/propaganda. It is unlikely that he would have won. I do think that without knowing Comey played into Russian politics. Yes, his actions gave Trump the upper political hand. Although I do believe his was just trying to cover his azz BEfORE the election so that he would not be accused AFTER the elections. I get it.
wildbill83 · 36-40, M
Pherick · 41-45, M
@wildbill83 trump had his own busy day, throwing America and its people under the bus, so we thought it was a good time to talk about it.
You don't have to read or comment if it bothers you.
You don't have to read or comment if it bothers you.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
bijouxbroussard · F
@Picklebobble2 It's a fair question, because her chances were poisoned from the onset. Could Bernie have won ? He had a following among many demographics, including young people. But many [b]others[/b] in the U.S. are afraid of anyone who is too close to "Socialism" (our national Bogeyman) afraid without even fully understanding what it [b]is[/b].
SW-User
@WoodyAq you ain't worthy of my time
WoodyAq · M
@SW-User I'll take that as a compliment.
SW-User
@WoodyAq don't flatter yourself
Abrienda · 26-30, F
@SW-User WE have a saying. "Proverbs are the road signs to error."
BittersweetPotato · 31-35, F
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@BittersweetPotato He probably does. o.O
BittersweetPotato · 31-35, F
@RodionRomanovitch That's why I am always too careful with what I say, you never know O.o
monte3 · 70-79, M
“Perfect Storm” as an image is pathetic? It does reference a movie but what does that have to do with Anything? Whatever...What were Russian intentions if not to influence? THEY thought it was doing something. The truth is you have no more idea than I do how it affected people. @Abrienda
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@monte3 Because Putin hated Clinton and also knew (for reasons yet unknown) that Trump would be more malleable.
monte3 · 70-79, M
@RodionRomanovitch the hated Clinton because she and Obama kept objecting to poisoning people shooting down plane and invading Ukraine. And they were right on the malleable part. God is he malleable.
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
eli1601 · 70-79, M
The end justifies the means.
eli1601 · 70-79, M
luckranger71 · 51-55, M
@CopperCicada I’m afraid he is.
CopperCicada · M
Sure. Hillary ran a horrible campaign that alienated everyone.
CopperCicada · M
@Ynotisay Ya sure. Trump won more electoral votes because the DNC miscalculated and took for granted certain states.
CopperCicada · M
@WoodyAq Precinct projected a 10% increase in turnout got 30%. Ran out of ballots and provisional ballots. Outcome: 🖕.
NoFuxGiven · 22-25, F
jackson55 · M
Trump was elected without Russian help.
jackson55 · M
@bijouxbroussard I agree the Russians tried to influence the election. They've done it before and they will try again. Did it actually change the vote count? Rosinstine said he doesn't believe it did. It didn't change yours and I don't believe it changed the mind of many Hillary voters. Hillary ran a lousey campaign, she has no one to blame but herself for the loss. Had Hillary won we wouldn't have heard a word about Russian influence. Muller and Rosinstine are no friends of Trump and in the two years the investigation has been going on if they had found any collusion to get Trump elected it would have leaked out by now. Putin is a lieing snake in the grass, he's has tried to influence elections in Germany, France and the U.K. For years. He has tried to undermine democracy wherever he can. He has played George Bush, Obama and now Trump and he will continue to push his influence wherever he can get away with it.
monte3 · 70-79, M
I respectfully disagree that if there was evidence of collusion it would have leaked out. mueller’ tea, is so tight and competent that nothing leaks. We have no idea what they have found. The Russians did not change any Hillary voters, or those like me that saw T. For what he is, but I think they affected undecided voters and fueled the anti Hillary fury. @jackson55
Heartlander · 80-89, M
I can't wait to see what the Russians downloaded from Clinton private servers.
nudistsueaz · 61-69, F
Oh yes, everyone knows that.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@nudistsueaz Everyone as in everyone who believes his lies you mean ?
gregloa · 61-69, M
Hillary helped him win
Coolkid77 · 31-35, M
Yes.
Humanist321 · M
no
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@Humanist321 Would Hillary have won the Democrat primary without CNN's help?
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
This message was deleted by its author.
TheOneyouwerewarnedabout · 41-45, MVIP
@eli1601 what do you Spose Hillary meant when she said
......’if that son of a bitch wins we’ll all hang from nooses’?
😁...
#realRussiaStory
......’if that son of a bitch wins we’ll all hang from nooses’?
😁...
#realRussiaStory
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout I've absolutely no idea , maybe you could enlighten me ?
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout Come on Aussie , if you want to play then you have to string some words together.