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How vulnerable is Europe with a weakened NATO and Trump favoring Putin?

BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
"Weakened NATO and Trump favoring Putin"
Uhhhhh what rock have you been living under? Did you not notice that Trump is leading a NATO buildup on Russia's borders? America is in two separate proxy wars with Russia right now, the US is funding Russia's enemies in Syria and anti-Russian rebels in the Ukraine. We're flying fighter jets over the Black Sea, we almost crashed one into a Russian bomber plane this January. The United States isn't favoring Russia at all, they're inciting war with them.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@WoodyAq I had mostly read it was Syrian pilots using Russian manufactured bomber jets. Which isn't much better, I suppose.

Assad was already shooting unarmed protesters, then made the gesture of asking Russia if it was ok. Which...again, isn't much better.

Regardless, America is making it worse. We're giving weapons and money to people equally as brutal as Assad, and they're racking up even higher civilian casualties than before. Assad has essentially won, the rebels aren't gonna be doing much against him now. Yet we're continuing to bomb the shit out of Syria, which is doing nothing for anyone except the defense contractors to make them a bigger profit.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@BlueMetalChick President blowhard annoys people on Twitter. Meanwhile, the American state carries out the same foreign policy that it always has.
WoodyAq · M
@BlueMetalChick The world community wanted to pass a resolution warning Assad to negotiate. The Russians blocked it. At the same time Russian military advisers in Syria were advising repression. Then the shooting started.

We armed some of the opposition to force Assad to negotiate. The Russians overrode us to further Assad's brutality.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
As a European, I can say: not a lot.

Russia has an economy the size of Italy and only really has eyes in its traditional sphere of influence: I.E. to the East of the Iron Curtain. Even without America, it is highly doubtful whether Russia could beat the combined armies of Europe and conquer that territory anyway, even if they wanted to (which they don't).

The US and the EU were heavily provocative in Ukraine, as was Putin but Crimea is mostly Russian anyway and its what most of the people there want.

I despise both Trump and Putin but I really don't mind that they are close for the simple reason that it means that there is more likely to be peace. NATO is a cold war hang-on and its continued existence is about imperial power, not defense. People get obsessed with this national pride issue but its really about the power of one national elite over another. Putin acts in a world stage to play to his base and pretend to restore a lost sense of pride in Russia.

I get why Americans are pissed off with his speech. He is a blowhard who is intent on undermining the investigation against him and covering his own back. He is probably very very worried about the family finances being looked at by Mueller. This is not worth going to war over though. The US has meddled in plenty of elections and there are bigger problems in the world than the Trump show. The man himself is probably not even competent enough to commit treason.
WoodyAq · M
Trump has made war more likely.
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BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@WoodyAq ^THIS
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
Nothing is changing.
That's the great irony of Trump's Presidency.

For all the blow-hard that he does, nobody's panicking over his daft E:U strategy or his comments re:NATO.

He accused Obama of changing nothing during his term in office and he's having to do exactly the same.

He's desperate for a 'bad guy' so he can be 'seen as a strong President'.
But when you try picking a fight with Russia, then withdraw. when you try picking a fight with North Korea, then withdraw......Where's he off to next ?

China ?
HowardP · 80-89, M
First of all, NATO is strengthening: even before the last meeting where Trump laid the law down, Nato was spending more on men and materiel. Second, Trump has been far harder on Russia than Obama ever was. Below the smiles, sanctions are much hasher than under Obama, and when did Obama expelled SIXTY Russian spies, as Trump did.

You have been reading too many MSM headlines, and too little detail if you believe either of your postulates.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@HowardP Thaaaaaaaank you. This needs best answer. Obama didn't play nice with Russia either, but Trump is being even nastier.
eli1601 · 70-79, M
76starships · 46-50, M
Not vulnerable at all, really. Not to an invasion by a national army. The Euros need to invest in a naval presence in the Med to deter and control illegal crossings and improve their border security.

The Russians aren’t going to be steamrolling through Europe to Paris anytime soon. Europe’s real threats are quite different. NATO is more club than functioning alliance, there are too many nations in it for different reasons. It’s obsolete.
We are absolutely fine, we don't need America. Our relation with Russia was icy due to America.
MarkPaul · 26-30, M
Baby-trump is basically emasculated, neutered, and otherwise distracted. NATO is still strong. The EU has cracks, but is still strong. The USA is dealing with a baby and his temper tantrums, but is still strong. And Putin still needs to keep hidden billions and billions of stolen dollars from his own country, KGB type tricks, and an inert population to stay in power.

No doubt things seem bad, but good, not evil, will ultimately win this test of strength.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
Thankfully, Britain and France have a nuclear deterrent.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@beckyromero Then perhaps Russia needs to be worried. America is currently involved in seven wars and had meddled in more elections than any other country in history...
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@Burnley123 [quote]America is currently involved in seven wars and had meddled in more elections than any other country in history...[/quote]

I guess when you were busy colonizing there was no time for elections.

😉

What's the old saying, "The sun never set on the British empire"?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@beckyromero I am fine with you criticising the British Empire and I do so myself. 😉
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
Europe is fine. Russia neither can, nor wants to take on the EU, much less NATO, weakened or not.

For one, there is nothing to gain by it.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@QuixoticSoul Thank you!
Footballstar · 26-30, M
Somewhere between 0 and not at all
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
Why don’t you care that Russia and America work together in “space”?
WoodyAq · M
@MrBrownstone Can we send Trump into space? That seems like a stellar idea.
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
@WoodyAq No. Because we can’t go into space.
WoodyAq · M
?
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
Russia is not a military threat to Europe.
WoodyAq · M
@CountScrofula Tell that to Ukraine and Estonia...
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@WoodyAq Sure but they aren't "Europe" as a whole. If the question specified Estonia I'd respond differently.
Over hyped ‘what ifs’...
No wonder nothing ever gets done..
SW-User
Europe needs to get spanked by free speech
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BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@LvChris I wasn't asking you personally, slapstick. I was speaking in second person, because I was hoping you'd give me your hypothesis. We've had this conversation before but it got cut short.
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