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I don't believe we should.
Many say that he discovered the earth is round- and I do not even know how that began Lol. By Columbus' day, this was already common knowledge. He was actually just bad at math, and did not believe the experts whom said that the earth was round. He believed it to be pear-shaped, and far smaller than it actually was (He also thought it had a nipple on top, like a "Woman's breast", and wrote about this in his journal). This belief as to the earth being far smaller than it actually is was what led to him setting sail.
Columbus never made it to modern-day United States. He made it to Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, etc. I am of the mind that you cannot really 'discover' a land that already has a quarter-million people already residing there. And a Norse explorer had already very likely made it there 500 years earlier, meaning Columbus was not even the first European to set foot in America. It is also strongly believed that a Chinese Admiral made it there 70 years earlier, as is supported by the findings of an early map outlining both North AND South America. And those people whom Columbus 'discovered' were then slaughtered when Columbus returned with 17 ships and the intent to enslave the Taino people and steal their gold (Which they did not have). Columbus was so angered by this that he began to slaughter them to such an extent that the island's population dropped to the 200. Essentially all that he did was blindly sail across the Carribean, murder a bunch of people, and died thinking the earth was pear-shaped with a nipple and he had made it to India. He did not even have the awareness to return and inform people that he had FOUND America, as he still believed he was in the East Indies.
Columbus was not celebrated widely until the 1820s. It was Washington Irving who wrote a collection of Tall Tales- one of which painted Columbus as a hero who had discovered America and proved that the earth was round. And this really caught on, as new Americans were looking for a hero at that time. This was when a large influx of Italian immigrants were making their way here and being mistreated, so Italian-AMericans held tight to this version of Columbus that Irving had written, and it became widely-promoted in an attempt to prove that Italians were a huge part of American history and belonged here. This was what led to an incompetent, brutal, greedy man who was awful at math and believed that the earth was pear-shaped with a nipple being viewed as an American hero.
I am of the mind that we should not celebrate a blatant and incompetent genocidal maniac. Perhaps even celebrating the common-knowledge being spread of the existence of America would be appropriate (Though that, in its own way, is a celebration of genocide, as well), but we should not be treating Columbus as some bold hero. He thought he was going to make it to India in a matter of days. He discovered America by complete accident, and was absolutely awful when he did so. You are not inherently a hero by doing so- it was a matter of chance which he then used for violence. Teach about him as a part of history, of course, but do not celebrate him.
Many say that he discovered the earth is round- and I do not even know how that began Lol. By Columbus' day, this was already common knowledge. He was actually just bad at math, and did not believe the experts whom said that the earth was round. He believed it to be pear-shaped, and far smaller than it actually was (He also thought it had a nipple on top, like a "Woman's breast", and wrote about this in his journal). This belief as to the earth being far smaller than it actually is was what led to him setting sail.
Columbus never made it to modern-day United States. He made it to Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, etc. I am of the mind that you cannot really 'discover' a land that already has a quarter-million people already residing there. And a Norse explorer had already very likely made it there 500 years earlier, meaning Columbus was not even the first European to set foot in America. It is also strongly believed that a Chinese Admiral made it there 70 years earlier, as is supported by the findings of an early map outlining both North AND South America. And those people whom Columbus 'discovered' were then slaughtered when Columbus returned with 17 ships and the intent to enslave the Taino people and steal their gold (Which they did not have). Columbus was so angered by this that he began to slaughter them to such an extent that the island's population dropped to the 200. Essentially all that he did was blindly sail across the Carribean, murder a bunch of people, and died thinking the earth was pear-shaped with a nipple and he had made it to India. He did not even have the awareness to return and inform people that he had FOUND America, as he still believed he was in the East Indies.
Columbus was not celebrated widely until the 1820s. It was Washington Irving who wrote a collection of Tall Tales- one of which painted Columbus as a hero who had discovered America and proved that the earth was round. And this really caught on, as new Americans were looking for a hero at that time. This was when a large influx of Italian immigrants were making their way here and being mistreated, so Italian-AMericans held tight to this version of Columbus that Irving had written, and it became widely-promoted in an attempt to prove that Italians were a huge part of American history and belonged here. This was what led to an incompetent, brutal, greedy man who was awful at math and believed that the earth was pear-shaped with a nipple being viewed as an American hero.
I am of the mind that we should not celebrate a blatant and incompetent genocidal maniac. Perhaps even celebrating the common-knowledge being spread of the existence of America would be appropriate (Though that, in its own way, is a celebration of genocide, as well), but we should not be treating Columbus as some bold hero. He thought he was going to make it to India in a matter of days. He discovered America by complete accident, and was absolutely awful when he did so. You are not inherently a hero by doing so- it was a matter of chance which he then used for violence. Teach about him as a part of history, of course, but do not celebrate him.
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@MissKimmie You are an intelligent person. Well said. 🙂
calicuz · 56-60, M
No, he was nothing more than a thief at the very least.
They stole so much from the Indigenous people and enslaving them and torturing them is not to be found in their history books.
Let's be done with all this justifying propaganda and get back to real history, even if it hurts.
Full disclosure: I'm Mexican American
They stole so much from the Indigenous people and enslaving them and torturing them is not to be found in their history books.
Let's be done with all this justifying propaganda and get back to real history, even if it hurts.
Full disclosure: I'm Mexican American
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REMsleep · 41-45, F
He should be remembered for his contributions to our current society and paving the way for Europeans in the New World but its insensitive to "celebrate " him.
I don't blame anyone who is offended by the celebration of Columbus.
He was awful in many ways by the standards of today but so were the majority of historical figures so its a gray area. The fact is he did open the eyes of Europe to the New World.
Although the Vikings( Europeans)had a couple of permanent settlements in the frozen Canadian islands hundreds of years before CC.
They even traded with Native Americans in that area but they had no desire to build up empire there.
I don't blame anyone who is offended by the celebration of Columbus.
He was awful in many ways by the standards of today but so were the majority of historical figures so its a gray area. The fact is he did open the eyes of Europe to the New World.
Although the Vikings( Europeans)had a couple of permanent settlements in the frozen Canadian islands hundreds of years before CC.
They even traded with Native Americans in that area but they had no desire to build up empire there.
Torsten · 36-40, M
I dont know about celebrating but should be acknowledged for sure. Tired of people trying to ignore history because they dont like what happened during it.
the times were different back during that time for sure and as people dont like hearing it but the strong overtook the weak.
It is what it is and nothing can change the past, well except for those who try to rewrite it anyway
the times were different back during that time for sure and as people dont like hearing it but the strong overtook the weak.
It is what it is and nothing can change the past, well except for those who try to rewrite it anyway
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@Torsten This notion is false. The Egyptians were not indigenous. But they definitely got involved in a deal that ended their empire. Let us just say some celestial beings were involved. But even they were not obsessed with world domination. They wanted to protect their territory from the outside world.
CopperCicada · M
In some sense, history is about imagination, how we see ourselves as existing it world.
Some people see Columbus as an Italian hero. And with that, a focus of Italian-American pride. In truth, without Italian-Americans lobbying, we wouldn't have this Columbus day thing.
Some people see Columbus as bringing Christ to North America. So for them, it is the beginning of Christianizing the Americas. I'll niggle and point out the first Christian church in the Americas was built hundreds of years earlier by Norse Vikings converted to Christianity.
Some people see Columbus day as the extension of European culture and economy. The extension of those ideals of progress, growth, economy. All that good stuff. Developing the blank slate of the New World.
Some people see Columbus as the beginning of the American experiment. I am not sure why. But the spirit is that he began the discovery that would bring people to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock.
Some people see Columbus as the destroyer of their indigenous culture. Either directly or symbolically as marking the beginning of a way of discovery that literally killed, raped, displaced, exploited, enslaved indigenous peoples to contemporary times.
It's all the same history. We just lift out pieces that fit our dream.
I choose to look to the Norse Vikings as the first Europeans in the Americas. Living in what was Spanish Florida I look to Columbus as the one who brought Ponce de Leon. I look to the founder of Jamestown and Plymouth Rock as the first founders of this thing called America.
Some people see Columbus as an Italian hero. And with that, a focus of Italian-American pride. In truth, without Italian-Americans lobbying, we wouldn't have this Columbus day thing.
Some people see Columbus as bringing Christ to North America. So for them, it is the beginning of Christianizing the Americas. I'll niggle and point out the first Christian church in the Americas was built hundreds of years earlier by Norse Vikings converted to Christianity.
Some people see Columbus day as the extension of European culture and economy. The extension of those ideals of progress, growth, economy. All that good stuff. Developing the blank slate of the New World.
Some people see Columbus as the beginning of the American experiment. I am not sure why. But the spirit is that he began the discovery that would bring people to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock.
Some people see Columbus as the destroyer of their indigenous culture. Either directly or symbolically as marking the beginning of a way of discovery that literally killed, raped, displaced, exploited, enslaved indigenous peoples to contemporary times.
It's all the same history. We just lift out pieces that fit our dream.
I choose to look to the Norse Vikings as the first Europeans in the Americas. Living in what was Spanish Florida I look to Columbus as the one who brought Ponce de Leon. I look to the founder of Jamestown and Plymouth Rock as the first founders of this thing called America.
SW-User
@CopperCicada I love this answer
Penny · 46-50, F
i think it should be. if just for tradition's sake. he was like a conquerer. he conquered the US, not so much discovered it, but that's was history has him down for and there is some truth to that. he discovered it for the europeans and in this modern advanced age things like that i think are taken for granted. i think it reminds us of a time when there was no such thing as airplanes or even telephones let alone cell phones. i mean, yeah it's sad for the indigenous "americans" but i dont see the US giving the country "back" or anything so its pretty hypocritical to change it to "Indigenous people's day in my mind. people really are turning into a bunch of wusses.
JustNik · 51-55, F
No never really got that one. He simply didn’t do what he’s celebrated for. Why can’t we just call it a Federal Perk Day?
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
I mean, he formally discovered the Western Hemisphere. That's a pretty big accomplishment. It should definitely not be understated that he took on a perilous journey and ended up making one of the biggest (quite literally) discoveries of the past several hundred years. He helped change the history of the world.
That said, the subsequent history on him is not so nice and neat. As with many things in life, it's complicated. Thousands of people were brutalized and enslaved by him, and millions more would die in the coming centuries as a result of his legacy, which definitely doesn't paint him in any positive light.
On the other hand, people are often products of their time and not really forward thinking. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it does put it into context. Future generations tend to judge the past ones based on contemporary values, and one day we will be judged the same way.
It wasn't like he was the only one behind all of that mistreatment. He was one of many similarly-minded men that sought to bring glory to their country and their god at the expense of other peoples.
That said, the subsequent history on him is not so nice and neat. As with many things in life, it's complicated. Thousands of people were brutalized and enslaved by him, and millions more would die in the coming centuries as a result of his legacy, which definitely doesn't paint him in any positive light.
On the other hand, people are often products of their time and not really forward thinking. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it does put it into context. Future generations tend to judge the past ones based on contemporary values, and one day we will be judged the same way.
It wasn't like he was the only one behind all of that mistreatment. He was one of many similarly-minded men that sought to bring glory to their country and their god at the expense of other peoples.
Fran63 · 61-69, M
My mates old band sang a song something like "Columbus didn't discover America it waz already there"
ElwoodBlues · M
@Fran63 And if we're talking about European discovery of the Americas, Leif Erikson came to North America around the year 1000, eventually establishing a settlement in "Vineland," what is now the Canadian province of Newfoundland.
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@ElwoodBlues You do realize there were people here before Mr Erikson too. 🤔
ElwoodBlues · M
@Zonuss For sure. That's why I specified European discovery.
He was an adventurer who changed the world. That's a fact. You can add other facts. But the facts are the facts.
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@FrogManSometimesLooksBothWays Native American already had horses. And they had plenty of food. 🙂
@Zonuss I stand corrected!
Columbus didn't introduce them
The original theory accepted by the Western World was that there were no horses in the Americas prior to Columbus’ arrival in 1492. The Western World concluded that all horses of Native American peoples were, therefore, descendants of horses brought from overseas.
This theory was forced to change, however, after paleontology pioneer Joseph Leidy discovered horse skeletons embedded in American soil in the 1830s. They were dated to be the oldest of any found in the world. According to Collin’s dissertation, the American scientific community was outraged and questioned his findings. Ultimately, they were forced to accept the evidence he provided.
The original theory accepted by the Western World was that there were no horses in the Americas prior to Columbus’ arrival in 1492. The Western World concluded that all horses of Native American peoples were, therefore, descendants of horses brought from overseas.
This theory was forced to change, however, after paleontology pioneer Joseph Leidy discovered horse skeletons embedded in American soil in the 1830s. They were dated to be the oldest of any found in the world. According to Collin’s dissertation, the American scientific community was outraged and questioned his findings. Ultimately, they were forced to accept the evidence he provided.
Stillwaiting · M
Revamp all holidays to not celebrate any person or group of persons .. as all people(s) have their faults. Put an end to the bickering and b.s. by taking away the source of contention.
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@Stillwaiting There are some who deserve to be criticized. One should not take things too personal going ven the nature of politics.
Iwillwait · M
Banks should never be closed.
@Iwillwait Neither should v------.
There's a petition in Ohio to rename Columbus. Petitioners want the name changed to Indigenous Peoples, Ohio.
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MarineBob · 56-60, M
We have way to many federal holidays
@MarineBob Why not make every Monday a holiday and be done with it !! 🤣 🇺🇸
@Zonuss That's what they all say.
DearAmbellina2113 · 41-45, F
No. He didn't discover anything!!!
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@DearAmbellina2113 Of course not.
InHeaven · F
No. I don’t care about him.
@InHeaven That's what she said! 🤣
InHeaven · F
Ya@FrogManSometimesLooksBothWays And?
GBPackersFan · 41-45, M
Wasn’t aware of that but since my first name is Christopher I’m not showing up for work today
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@GBPackersFan Hi Chris.🙂
SW-User
TLDR: He was pretty bad, even by the standards of Spain during the Inquisition.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/07/books.spain
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/07/books.spain
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@SW-User Thanks for sharing. Typical Euro American history. 🙂
Starcrossed · 41-45, F
Absolutely not.
Degbeme · 70-79, M
Celebrate the Vikings.
SW-User
No
ImperialAerosolKidFromEP · 51-55, M
I think cancelling historical figures who did barbaric things in barbaric times is silly. If we keep going like this, historical figures will only be honorable for at most 100 years and then the times they live in will become barbaric
Zonuss · 41-45, M
@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP There are many who were not Barbaric people.
ImperialAerosolKidFromEP · 51-55, M
@Zonuss they didn't have the power to be
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
Doesnt that make him a great role model for American society today??😷
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Zonuss · 41-45, M
@whowasthatmaskedman No not even now. We don't celebrate genocide.
Yes
No one is perfect myself included
No one is perfect myself included
SW-User
Know better, do better
There is no doubt that the intrepid bravery of the spirit of exploration of that age, and Columbus in particular, makes for a moving and rousing tale, and has inspired national pride for the Italians and Spanish
However, you cannot be aware of his later actions, brutal even for the time, and in any way celebrate him as a person
There is no doubt that the intrepid bravery of the spirit of exploration of that age, and Columbus in particular, makes for a moving and rousing tale, and has inspired national pride for the Italians and Spanish
However, you cannot be aware of his later actions, brutal even for the time, and in any way celebrate him as a person
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Zonuss · 41-45, M
@MarmeeMarch That's because it's a specific day. Chrome dome.😂
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Zonuss · 41-45, M
@MarmeeMarch A full head of hair with no brain. 😂