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How about instead of building a wall at the border ...

... we work with the countries to our south to make them places they don't want to leave? It would be cheaper and more effective in the long run.

Here is the argument against that approach, and here is 3 reasons why it is wrong.

"It's their mess, we shouldn't have to be the ones to clean it up!"

1) That is only partly true. Americans have a long history intervention in the region, and anti-communist driven initiatives of the 1950s-1980s left a considerable mess. We are obligated to pay for some of the clean-up.


2) The anti-communist coups are a damaging legacy that casts a shadow over the now. But it isn't more important than now. Let's admit two facts:

i) The US war on drugs has been an unmitigated disaster. It has been devastating in the US, doing far more damage than the drugs themselves ever could. But, as importantly, it puts a lot of resources in the hands of violent criminals in Latin America, making them too powerful for the weak governments there to handle.

This is a North American-made policy choice that is destroying Latin America, and driving their people north.

ii) America's love affair with guns ensures that the drug lords are well armed and capable of overwhelming countries with violence. Put simply, American gun manufacturers know that a part of their market are the drug cartels, and they produce the guns anyway.

While making this point tends to draw a lot of self-righteous noise about individual rights, the 2nd amendment begins "a well-regulated militia ..." not, "unregulated drug cartels...".

So here's a simple proposal: how about [i]not[/i] producing guns for global criminals?

Starve groups like MS-13 of resources and armament, reduce the violence in Latin America and let people stay in their homes rather than coming to the US?

Unlike a wall, it just might work ...馃
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NorthwestM
If I had a nickel, anytime someone put this up for discussion, I would have a shitload of extra nickels.

I read through this thread, and the usual arguments popped up:

1. "you're placing the blame on us, what about them?". This is why it's very important to teach history in school, or have an understanding of the bigger picture. We never asked any hard questions, when the war on communism, produced the Banana Republics, and I bet you Q$s to donuts, 99 out of 100 of us, can't explain what a banana republic is, and how that plays into the American Continent's current issues.

Even our elected officials, looked the other way, or simply did not bother, because it's "their" problem, not ours. For example, when the CIA toppled the Chilean regime, in 1973, Congress was clueless about it. And that's just a minor example. Not to mention everything that happened under the Reagan administration.

2. It's part of the war on "whites". Whites are not responsible for all the bad stuff. I would like to remind them that it's not about "whites", it's about what was, collectively, done in our name. It also happens, that the people who made all decisions, are mostly old white men.

3. "Stay clear of the 2nd amendment", even though this has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment.

So, the logic is: it happened long before I was around, so don't bother me with it. Native Americans: not my problem. Slavery: not my problem. Arming despots all over the world, leading to failed economies: not my problem. War on drugs producing gangs: not my problem.

But, we have a solution: let's build a wall. That will solve all these problems.
MarmeeMarchM
@Northwest dont bother to explain to this bleeding heart -
Harriet0341-45, F
@Northwest SMH..never mind.
NorthwestM
@MarmeeMarch You really should read what I posted, before you comment. I will add you to the list of angry white men.
WoodyAqM
@Northwest As an angry white man myself, I feel obligated to say that Marmie [u]isn't[/u] a credit to our race/gender/temperament.
MarmeeMarchM
@Northwest I did - leave some space to add yourself.
NorthwestM
@MarmeeMarch Got it. I will add you to the list of those Hillary meant, when she said deplorables.
MarmeeMarchM
@WoodyAq says the ultimate authority - nice open mind
MarmeeMarchM
@Northwest Hillary ---lol ok now you are reaching the bottom of the barrel. Did she not marry a southern white man ?