One man in USA kills 18 and injures many today! No one needs an assault weapon ever, So sad that the USA hasn't outlawed assault weapons!

@TexChik It does not matter what you call a gun like that, or what is its correct military name, it does not matter what party-political beliefs you try to glue it to, it is still a powerful, large-magazine gun.

There have been murders caused in other countries too by thugs driving vans at people, but there is a difference which is why no-one calls for vans to banned. For a van is designed to carry goods; a gun is designed deliberately for killing people.

Your last sentence speak volumes... Yes, "America"'s settlers (but not the original residents) gained Independence by war, as did many former British and other European colonies, but in America's case at least by defined military units battling it out, and it does not excuse gratuitous violence among USA-nationals within the USA, or similarly in any other land, now.

@ArishMell Guns can kill people, or animals, or be used in accuracy contests. One thing is clear throughout history, any time socialists can disarm the populace of a country, the real mass killings start (as in the millions). You can rest assured the socialist government here won't disarm itself. Our system of government prevents us from being made. Those shootings happen because the corrupt in government want them to. Look at Chicago. We have seen how fast properly trained police can take out a shooter, and we have seen how corrupt police allow a shooter to kill. None of it is the fault of the gun, and until the real issue is dealt with (corrupt politicians and mental illness) nothing is going to change.

@TexChik The discussion is about some one man murdering nearly 20 people for some reason only he can know; and outside of wars and terrorist attacks, your country suffers far more of these pointless atrocities than any others, irrespective of their political systems.

There have been similar random mass-killings in other countries but they are very rare, and ones with no "political" motive rare even among them.

Whatever is wrong, does not seem like the "routine" killings in some other violent countries, where war or insurgency apart, they are commonly related to crime gangs or religious sectarianism. It is something almost uniquely your country's, and it can only be your country that can sort it out. It is a [i]social[/i] problem, and hiding behind political theory or inter-party abuse won't help. Its solutions need cross-party, cross-nation, social consensus.



Oddly this latest attack was being reported on the BBC Radio Four news programme as I typed the above, with a retired FBI Officer being interviewed to give us some insight into it. One point she made is that it is very unusual for the perpetrator to flee. Most are either shot by the Police, or shoot themselves, at the scene.

The problem is that if the murderers are not caught alive, no-one can really know their motives (unless they leave some sort of prior "confessions"), making it harder to try to comprehend and minimise this sort of violence.

@ArishMell Our country suffers from corrupt socialists...Freedom wasn't free to get and it's not free to maintain. The corrupt socialists have impeded law and order, so now the sheep and the socialists want to take away our right to have guns. They can't and never will.

@TexChik So what is more important? More murders than all other comparable countries together, or political dogma.

Yes, of course if you have corrupt politicians of[i] any [/i]party or ideology, or corrupt or merely badly-trained, badly led police; root them out (in the case of the police, improve their overall standards), but you won't get anywhere by merely blaming your [i]political [/i]opponents for your [i]social[/i] problems.

About four years ago I looked into gun ownership in the USA, by proportion of adult population; when I think the NRA was particularly in the spotlight. Despite its romantic attachment to shooting, I did conclude that it is [i]not[/i] the villain of the piece, as many foreigners understandably think. For there are sporting-gun clubs in other countries, including here in the UK, but these countries suffer very, very, few random shootings; so that supposed NRA influence is probably specious and there is something else going on. Though does it do much condemning of mass-murders by gun?

I found -

- the NRA is quite a small club by proportion, with a surprisingly modest subscription (only about $40 at the time), but it finds the money for large political campaign costs that inflate its apparent significance*;

- very approximately half of American households say they own [i]no [/i]guns;

- yet there are far more guns [i]legally[/i] held, than all the people [i]legally[/i] allowed to own them!

- one conclusion emerged was there are far fewer NRA members than gun-owners, but I appreciate the NRA may simply be the noisiest of many gun clubs. Many of the rest might be small, local ones.

(We're hardly likely to know the count and whereabouts of [i]illegal [/i]weapons...)

Of course only a tiny minority of people go out and buy a gun and ammunition to attack a shopping-centre or a school. No-one would seriously think otherwise, but may worry about too-easy availability of the equipment. A friend of mine was startled find he could buy rifle rounds but not beer, in a rural town shop - and he a foreign visitor in a area that probably sees few foreigners! So no problem for Americans in their own country. (He was replacing ammunition he'd been invited to expend on a hosts' private range.)

Nevertheless, and allowing for genuine sports use, it is very hard when you are not directly involved, to understand why roughly half of any generally stable, democratic (small 'd'!), well-off, developed nation should so desperately want to own guns - sometimes many guns - anyway. Especially types of gun that have no real sporting or even self-defence use, but seem to attract simply by being powerful.

.....

*Perhaps helped by fund-raising events and members' donations?

@ArishMell Law and order. Punish the evil severely, not the good. You libs can't go there because it works.

@TexChik I am not an American nor American resident so your country's political jeers don't mean anything to me; but I would agree you need punish the evil... such as murderers. If they are caught alive, of course.

But you won't cure your social problems by mere party-politics. Does anyone in the US ever wonder why no other civilised, stable and free country has so many random, multiple murders? They do happen elsewhere but far, far more rarely.

Or, whether there is a link or not, does anyone there wonder why these other countries do have sports-shooting enthusiasts but under strict control, and otherwise manage without firearms as household objects?

These incidents are reported abroad, you know, where rightly or wrongly, seeing apparent links between the killings, about half the nation desperate to cling onto their firearms, and shallow party-politics, is inescapable.

Yet ask Americans why it happens and many seem not to know, and of them, some can only retreat behind political cliches.

If we outsiders see it as one of the most bitterly divisive [i]social[/i] matters in the USA, it is because we see it as yet more killings of people for no purpose. Killings not even explicable by the sort of distorted political fanaticism we have suffered occasionally in Britain and Europe.

@ArishMell Then keep the hell out of our business, and don't presume you understand anything going on in this country since your only source of info is globalist propaganda.

@TexChik So people being shot for no reason don't matter?

I don't know what "globalist propaganda" means, but I can understand one report after another from a country that has this ghastly problem it seems unable to solve. I always said only Americans can solve American problems - so may we assume they will?

@TexChik Guns are Satan's tool for scared godless people!

@Carazaa I agree broadly on your adjective "scared"; but I am "Godless" (i.e. non-religious) too. So I don't believe in Satan either, by simple logic.

So does that make me bad? Does my not needing a god, risk my going out with a gun and shooting strangers in the street? Of course not.

Besides, I neither need nor want to know even where and how to buy such weapons, legally or illegally; nor how to use them - but I cite morality and humanity without needing ancient beliefs, for being "good".


Though are they (the murderers) "Scared"? Perhaps they are, of [i]something[/i]. Themselves perhaps?

"Godless" though? Meaningless. You need find a more convincing explanation.

@ArishMell I was talking about gun lovers who do not trust in Jesus to protect them. I trust in God to protect me and I think it is silly to think that anyone with a gun can prevent a mentally ill man to kill hundreds or terrorize them. I care about kids and only a very secure kid trusting in Gods protection would not be rattled about a country where no laws protect them from being terrorised by mentally ill. There are no mental institutions in the USA. The mentally ill have to sleep on the street. I am not scared, I care about the homeless and kids!

@Carazaa I m pleased that you are not scared but no amount of believing in God will protect you if someone decides to shoot you.

I don't make any connection between disbelief and loving guns: it would seem plenty of gun-lovers also profess to "traditional Christian values" - though I am highly suspicious of that prissy self-description. Besides, just because you are not religious does not make you a gun-fetishist, let alone a dangerous one - you might not need any gods, you might even be an avowed atheist, and still want nothing to do with guns.

Whether all who commit these terrible murders are "mentally ill" I have no idea. It's a very easy accusation, especially if the killer is dead and he's left no obvious motive. Unfortunately it can lead the gullible to equate being mentally ill with being dangerous, which of course is just not so. A very few individuals are indeed psychopathic, but there all manner of mental illnesses and personality disorders that do not predispose the sufferer to dangerous violence.

However, what you say about mentally ill people having to live on the streets is very disturbing and shines a new light on things. Your Government may have closed the mental hospitals but are there no alternative care systems? Why is no-one looking after them - I realise severe cases may be too difficult for families to handle, but are they just abandoned?

If that's the case perhaps it's not surprising if those who do genuinely have some deep psychotic disorder, might flip into being violent or even a killer; though I can't guess how someone living in penury under a railway bridge can afford an automatic rifle and ammunition. Even if he does not need prove any identity, arms licence and permanent address to the dealer. (My friend's eerie experience suggests you don't, even if a visiting foreigner, but I don't know where that was, and I imagine it varies between States.)

More to the point, merely linking mental illness and religious disbelief to being dangerous is wrong, illogical, insults the vast majority of mentally-ill people and non-believers who [i]are[/i] all decent people - and helps no-one.

@TexChik[b][c=7700B2] You sound like you have never lived in Scandinavia and have never eperienced freedom and no corruption in the government. Your family heritage is probably from some corrupt government in East Europe, Asia, or South America, or a repressed country. I was never a refugee. I came because the USA government asked for specialized research doctors, so my family moved. This paranoid feeling that our government is corrupt in USA is just paranoid. We have a very safe voting system and there is no corruption, only corrupt individuals that will end up in jail. Don't be so scared that you are paranoid needing protection against the government. That is crazy talk! [/c][/b]

@Carazaa You really should know what in the hell you are talking about before making an ass out of yourself as you have just done here. My family heritage is now corrupt because I disagree with your BS? You must be a lib, and clearly a knee-jerk reactionary, pompous windbag.

@TexChik Jesus wants us to be loving, pray for our enemies and those who persecute us. Please read your Bible and follow Jesus not Satan!

@Carazaa I think even Jesus would look at you with disdain. Try keeping your ignorant mouth shut until you actually know what you are talking about.