@trollslayer That is a good example of government-business collaboration. It's still unclear what the reason is for the business shutting down, but your example is good way to provide an incentive that hits on multiple wins: encouraging economic investment in the community, growing the tax base, and promoting business success.

@MarkPaul A Kroger spokesperson said that "theft and regulatory pressures" were the main reasons for the store closures in my area. If it was for a lack of profitability, I'm sure they would have mentioned that.

As to what "regulatory pressures" means, it's anyone's guess. Probably somehow related to the $1B they spent trying to merge with Albertson's. Kroger representatives are failing to give any further clarification beyond that.

But employees who talked to the local news and city officials who spoke with Kroger management all claim that the store was profitable, so I'm taking their word for it. I consider these to be my evidence.

Not sure why you would believe I'd allege that they're profitable when I don't even work in the store. Never claimed to. You honestly think they'd share their finances with me?

I literally gave you a list of things the city has done to curtail crime in recent years and yet it still wasn't enough for Kroger. That's just the things I know about. There could've been more behind the scenes. What makes you think you know how to solve crime better than our local government does? Or any of the local governments in places where grocery stores are shutting down? You act like solutions haven't been tried, and I can definitely see the stupidity in that

Oh wow, you're using a literal strawman as your strawman for this argument. That's hilarious. Easily now one of my all-time favorite logical fallacies.

Local police has been working with this store. The city installed a police substation on the same street as this location, they have off-duties working security, and I'm pretty sure they do regular patrols.

And I did offer a solution early on - mass institutionalization. But again, your reading comprehension skills are lacking. The exact details of that process are up for discussion, but I firmly believe there's a good chunk of people who just aren't cut out to live among society, and repeat shoplifting is one of the examples why.

You have the luxury of not living in a poor area, but you take a drive down a real sketchy neighborhood and you'll see all kinds of business fronts that have been abandoned for years. You get to live in your little bubble and think that markets are the solution to everything, but the reality is that markets only care about money and stores don't want to be in places where it's lacking.

I say what's truly intellectually lazy is your complete ignorance to the lives of the economically disadvantaged and your blind faith in an economic system that literally only exists in textbooks. Free markets are a myth rooted in ideology. You really think there's a place out there that has no regulation or government intervention whatsoever? That someone can just offer up a tax incentive and like voodoo, business is suddenly booming?

I can see now why you're one of the most openly ridiculed members of this website. You're just an inept know-it-all that can't make anything of his life in the real world, so you come onto this site to insult anyone that won't kowtow to your half-baked and uninformed notions in order to mask the insecurity you have from no one loving you. Your type is everywhere on forums, like mosquitoes for blood to suck.

Why don't you just run for office if you know how to fix all these problems? It won't be as easy as just shooting down everyone else's ideas, but at least you'll get to see what it's like to have to actually listen to people instead of assuming you know the answers.

@TinyViolins Well, there's that chip on your shoulder I diagnosed for you. I see where your problem is... since Kroger didn't precisely say, "it's not profitable," you are not able to assess the situation on your own. So, literally you are stuck. Well, that's why I am here, to help you out of this jam.

Crime is unprofitable for any business. Let me explain this in a way even you should be able to understand it. If a business is having a portion of its goods-for-sale stolen (that means no one is paying for it), we call that "shrinkage" and that becomes unprofitable. If that shrinkage starts taking up a larger and larger share of the day-to-day business receipts, it becomes unprofitable to do business. Let me know if you need a whiteboard exercise to illustrate this fundamental part of the retail business (that includes grocery stores). So, when a business says, "theft and regulatory pressures are the main reasons for the store closures..." they are telling you what the root cause is of the business being unprofitable. An astute person with a basic understanding of how the world works would knowingly recognize the business (rightly or wrongly) is telling you (and the public) that it's not their fault they are losing money; it's the theft and regulation that is causing the unprofitable condition thereby freeing themselves of any accountability. You see, when you only examine the surface of a problem statement, you lose the track for solving the problem. To make it even simpler for you and as a summary, theft and regulation has a cost and Kroger wants you to know that is what is causing their business in your community to be unprofitable. See now? Let me know what questions you could possibly have at this point.

If the city has done everything under the sun to fight crime, promoting the idea that owning and operating a grocery store at taxpayer expense is hardly the solution (perfect or imperfect) you think it will be. Tbh, I doubt your veracity in reporting this story, but based on the scanty information you have provided, if we take everything you have presented at face value (as no doubt you have), a better solution would be just to set up a government run food distribution center (Gaza Strip style) to put surplus food into the bellies of the selected neighbours you claim to care so much about.

As an aside, your behaviour here is reprehensible. Based on your flimsy research on this one topic and your faulty conclusions, I don't think I need to be worried about your allegation-as-evidence claim that I am "one of the most ridiculed members of the website." My advice to you is to get yourself some life experience instead of pretending you are the centre of the universe and a cut above everyone else.

As for your endorsement that I run for office, I will take that under advisement. No offence though, I can't put a lot of stock into it since I have seen how you tend to favour allegations over evidence, superficial gossip over substantiated facts, and opinions that you masquerade as well-thought-out proposals. As a scholar, businessperson who operates with a professional sense of behaviour, I refuse to engage in the type of insults that you are using to prop yourself up as some kind of Internet tough guy. All, I will say to you is, it's time you grow up. In any case, I do appreciate your confidence in me, and should I decide to run for office in your community, I will look forward to and count on your support. Be well.

@FreddieUK Shrink due to shoplifting has increased in Canada too.

@FreddieUK I do agree that more needs to be done against retail theft. There are organized crime rings now targeting many retailers, including grocery stores. Ultimately it ends up hurting the people who need it the most.

It's like with local Walgreens and other pharmacies. It's the sole place for many people to get their much needed medication, but due to a lack of staffing and security, often falls prey to shoplifting which leads to store closures, ultimately leaving many without a place to pick up their meds

@Cyclist Yeah, but once the store is gone, it's going to be very hard to fill the void left behind. You're pitching a preventative measure. It's like closing the stable door after the horses got loose.

I do agree that more effort needs to be done on the theft front, but I did mention earlier that shoplifting isn't really prosecuted properly due to an overcrowding of area prisons. We tried shipping inmates off to neighboring counties but even they got overcrowded.

Unfortunately it's a high COLA area with insufficient wages, so petty crime, homelessness, and addiction run rampant. The bad apples spoil the bunch for the rest of us hard-working types trying to get by

@TinyViolins I am not against government run food stores in some situations. I'll have to think about the balance between a free market and social benefit.

@JimboSaturn It's definitely an idea with plenty of risk, but also the potential to curb a lot of negative externalities. Ultimately, this is a classic example of market failure. A private business failed to meet the needs and demands of their market. In those instances, there's good justification for the government to step in

@TinyViolins Precisely what I was thinking. Government involvment due to market failure. I think people have to remember that the market is to serve the people, not people to serve the market.

@TinyViolins All I hear are tiny violins playing. During the great depression people found ways to grow food in the city, they even trapped and ate rats, dogs, cats, birds

@HumanEarth I watched a video on this.
People had victory gardens in the cities too.
I know a lady that actually started one in an apartment complex she lived in.
The manager liked it so much, he took out a bunch of useless common area grass and expanded the project.

@HumanEarth So we should start feeding kids rats and pets? I'm not saying that people won't find a way to eat, I'm saying that their alternatives are going to be junk food which has many negative health consequences.

I like the idea of community gardens, but I don't know much about their viability. As I understand it, they are mostly a way to supplement existing food supplies, not entirely replace it

@dale74 The majority of the theft, according to some employees, comes from alcohol and other things addicts take to resale. There are ways to adjust the store model in order to dampen these systemic issues, or to use some of the profit to increase security, but the store is apparently deciding to throw the baby out with the bath water

@TinyViolins used to work security for Kroger. I was over twenty six stores, the most common thing stolen was meat highend meat like steaks and baby formula because they are easy to resale.

@dale74 At one of the other grocery stores in my area, they only keep a handful of steaks out at a time, constantly replenishing them as needed, in order to keep theft to a minimum. I'll grant you that it's not efficient, but it keeps the store running and they have even lower prices than Kroger does.

@Amur8711 I'd prefer to focus on reality instead of speculation, especially when it's that damned cynical. I'm sure you can invent any level of malicious intent behind anybody running for or in office. It's like FEMA death panels, microchips in vaccines, or government seizing guns after every "false flag". You can try to sell fear to anybody by making things up

@dale74 I know, I worked in the regional corporate office of a major grocery chain. Margins are relative, but profit is king

@dale74 There's literally a whole paragraph addressing that