If a person uses deception to gain something, is it really a win?

I'd need context to make an honest judgment... But generally speaking deception is bad, and I wouldn't call it a win. However, I don't think the person doing the deceiving would care about it being hollow or not, as long as they get what they want 🤷🏽‍♂️

The heart of one who wants to achieve it only if it's real is very different to the one who will do anything to achieve it. One is good, the other is devious. One with morals, one without.

Deception sometimes is a situational and circumstantial method for survival. Sometimes there isn't money or resources to gain what one wants. Morals and ethics a lot of times will be sacrificed for survival. In the movie Alive 1993 based on a true story a South American rugby team plane crashes in the Andes and some resort to cannibalism to survive. The ones who held on to morals and values and didn't eat human flesh died. So a persons methods for achieving is usually a circumstantial endeavor. People with money are able to achieve things ethically and morally easier than poor people.

I love this question.

There are some competitions where using deception is part of the challenge. Negotiation, chess, football. It's inherent.

But in life? I think it's abhorrent to deceive people to get what you want, yet there's a whole section of society (the right wing conmen who are stealing our world) who see it as a hack, a shortcut, they think they can see the matrix and the rest of us are stupid for being honest.

They think they're Vikings sailing to pillage foreign shores, walking into a church and finding no guards, no locks, just faith that nobody would defile the sanctity of holy ground. They're laughing at us as we insist they tell the truth, and they're thinking "Why would I? I've not faced any negative consequences for the lies!"

I agree, except the person doing it usually doesn’t care if it’s hollow, just so long as it feeds their ego.

It would be the same as winning via cheating.

All my wins are hollow. Come at me bro.

"To some people life is very simple. They believe this is good, this is bad, this is right, this is wrong, no shadings and greys all blacks and whites. Now others of us believe good, bad, right and wrong are many sides complex things but the more we see the less sure we are. You asked me if I believe a man can sprout fur and assume the characteristics of a wolf? Of course not it's fantastic...but I do believe most anything can happen to a man inside his own mind" - Sir John Talbot/ The Wolf Man 1941.

... I dunno, they still have the thing, not someone else.

It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose. I don't think a person willing to use deception toward their own ends is concerned about how well earned the win feels. I do agree that a deceptive win is a hollow one, however.

I am not a fan but that is not their perception and while we're bemoaning the fairness they have run of with the gigantic stuffed bunny. 😒

We're talking about honours here. Not any kind of rewards. Right?

It's not 😬

Hey, I'm happy with a hollow win over a loss.

I don’t think they have that sort of emotional intelligence

I works for politicians

Well, deception is standard practice in war.

if the princess don't get what the princess wants it turns into a monster innit lol true that

It's a foolish win

Who cares. They’ll figure it out if they give any fuck at all. Some people don’t.

You know who says the same thing? LOSERS.