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People Wear It But Do They Understand It's Message?




For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13
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Okay, so first of all, prove that the empty tomb belonged to this Jesus person.
@LordShadowfire Better yet, prove the existence of the empty tomb.
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@CorvusBlackthorne Belief is belief. Just as you explained that you were late for work because you missed the bus - your boss believed you (you weren't fired). You have no means of 'proving' that you missed the bus!
@JollyRoger However, I can prove I exist rather easily. This Yeshua fellow has left no evidence apart from anecdotal evidence of his existence. If there is an empty tomb somewhere, I have seen no evidence. Neither have I seen evidence that it belonged to him.
@JollyRoger My boss believes me when something happens because I haven't made it a habit to lie to him.
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@LordShadowfire Exactly: Which is why circumspect people over centuries have found 'evidence' that the teachings that Christ ministered during His life and what Christ did and said just before his death built a trust in him for humanity. Just like your boss, your past behaviour predicts your future behaviour and lends credence to your worth. If you examine how living a 'Christ-like' life pleases other people, i.e., the giving, the forgiving, the loving, the problem solving, the sharing - then there is evidence that his influence has carried on and is a worthwhile path to follow: Empty tomb or not (and read about his reappearance and commissioning of his apostles) - the substance of the Man is what counts.
@JollyRoger [quote]...circumspect people over centuries have found 'evidence'...[/quote]
Which people? What evidence? Can you produce it?
@LordShadowfire It would appear that @JollyRoger cannot, in fact, produce either the people or the evidence.
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@CorvusBlackthorne I have no intention of producing 'the people' - that evidence has already been produced in the "New Testament" of The Bible; I suppose you'd deny that any historical reference book has current value? If so, then you are living life on the edge of recreating mistakes: We all live by learning from what others have learned and the New Testament was written from the accounts of what happened in the era - EVEN IF it was not codified in writing at the time.
You may say that I have no evidence: What code of ethics do you live by? I follow the teachings of Christ - even to the point of not calling you down for your denial of other people's perspectives. Living life FOR the benefit of others instead of [u]just[/u] for yourself is what Christ taught us.
@JollyRoger [quote]I have no intention of producing 'the people' - that evidence has already been produced in the "New Testament" of The Bible; I suppose you'd deny that any historical reference book has current value?[/quote]
Well, which is it? Are you talking about a historical reference book, or are you talking about the Bible?
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@LordShadowfire They are one and the same - history books and the Bible. The Bible is more philosophical that's all. All books are written from a perspective and that perspective varies from person to person - just as you have your perspective.
I suspect you're going to come back with more questions so, think on this: The Apostle Paul visited many places and brought people together with his dreams (revelations actually) of his encounter with the ghost of Christ. Those people reacted to those stories and began a history from them. The truth in their history is that they benefited from their life-changing experiences.
From their experience and that of other Apostles (Jesus' disciples) who collectively met Jesus in ghostly form (emphasis on the 'collectively'), the movement to continue Jesus' teaching began. There is evidence written (that's all we have at this point in time) that the "Holy Ghost" - the sweeping wind that entered all the people in the place they were gathered, started a collective understanding and the people went forth to evangelize. The point here is: What 'force' could motivate so many people at one time to continue one cohesive action? That reasoning is the 'story' that begins the history of Christianity.
It's much easier for you if you just say that you don't believe in the Christian theme - and I'm not suggesting that you have to believe it. But: It's you who is questioning the Christian theme and if you are not a subscriber to it - then why waste your time?
@JollyRoger [quote]I have no intention of producing 'the people'...[/quote]
Because they did not exist.
[quote]...that evidence has already been produced in the "New Testament" of The Bible...[/quote]
If you believe that, then I have definitive evidence of the existence of a gentleman named D'Artagnan.
@JollyRoger [quote]They are one and the same - history books and the Bible.[/quote]
Then you will have no problem proving the accuracy of the Bible.
@JollyRoger [quote]They are one and the same - history books and the Bible.[/quote]
[quote]The Apostle Paul...[/quote]
Was a liar who faked having a vision of the dead spirit of Jesus on the road in order to take control of the growing movement he had been ordered to destroy.
[quote]There is evidence written (that's all we have at this point in time) that the "Holy Ghost" - the sweeping wind that entered all the people in the place they were gathered, started a collective understanding and the people went forth to evangelize.[/quote]
Yeah? I've got written evidence of an evil clown that lives in the sewer and turns little kids into balloons. You going to believe that?
[quote]It's you who is questioning the Christian theme and if you are not a subscriber to it - then why waste your time?[/quote]
Why don't you ask God? Maybe he'll explain why I'm in your life. Or maybe he won't.
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@LordShadowfire And: by the statements you provide as proof of your depth of thinking and wishing to understand any perspective other than your one line statements: I can't provide you any more proof! The proof is there = your understanding of 'proof' is proof of your lack of understanding. Come back sometime when you have something to contribute to the conversation other than to give rejections to other peoples' 'proof'.
@JollyRoger [quote]The proof is there...[/quote]
Yet you have provided none.