FACTS vs the word of god. When truth matters , which do you pick
I noticed several believers keep denying solid, tested , irrefutable scientific evidence , simply because it’s not biblically acceptable. Not just evolution, but the fossil record, geology, cosmology, biology, etc. they never give a reason . We’re just supposed to accept it’s wrong , god’s word is the only thing that counts. Even when god doesn’t know WTF he’s talking about. I also noticed, they don’t feel the need to enlighten the rest of us as to why we should ignore the evidence.
tbh, I don't have any issues with people having faith or a belief system, whichever one that may be, if that's what it takes for them to live their lives, good for them BUT I do take issue with the current crop of Christo-Fascists, Christian Nationalists and Young Earth Creationists who want to force the rest of us to believe as they do and make our Nation non-Secular, teach their nonsense in schools and make Laws according to biblical fallacies and their very narrow interpretation of biblical verse. Believe whatever you want but ffs shut up about it, no one wants to hear their bullshit anymore.
Always amuses me how ignorant people post things like this because they never understand the nature of science and the nature of faith. They swallow the 19 century misconceptions that silence and faith are somehow at loggerheads rather than seeing the purpose of both and that they think that because they can point to the mechanism they can dispense with the agency. What of course they show is their own narrowness and paucity of outlook, poor things. As Chesterton said when people stop believing in God they don’t believe in nothing they believe in anything. You’ll find people like this believe in any old nonsense that comes along whether factual or not. It’s really quite laughable to hear them rant on
@Mathers What’s the matter chuckle head ? No original thoughts of your own ? All I see from you is quotes from other people, out of context. You didn’t actually read them , you didn’t learn anything from them, you just use them to hide your ignorance. It doesn’t work.
As you have no thoughts whatever, I wouldn’t think that matters to you. Your problem is that you know nothing but from what little you gleaned from atheist sites of the Internet and it’s quite obvious to anyone who knows anything so don’t try and fool anybody because you don’t. We now in atheist fraud when we see one@DocSavage
I choose proven facts over beliefs in all matters.
I consider the OT to be a story written by collectively by Aramaic and Jewish men, and the NT written by people two generations after the events alleged to have occured.
However, I have nothing against people having faith in things that can't be proven. Religions can be helpful in the creation of ethics, trust within a culture, and social norms. They can help build more functional societies and, for some, they can be comforting.
No system can be perfect because we are all fallible and perfection itself is impossible. But being social beings, having some kind of agreed system helps us to get along better.
Around the world, with so many migrants moving to new countries, we are all becoming pluralist societies with many faiths and cultures living side by side. This includes the slow increase of atheism, non-theism and agnosticism.
For us to get along well we need to learn how to understand one another's faiths and values. If we disagree with other's views, we need to be tolerant and acknowledge the rights and freedoms of others.
It's the twisted beauty of religion. It's allll about "faith" and "belief." So that means there's always an "out." No evidence or proof required. For me, someone can pray to a rock for all care. I see no difference. As long as they're a decent person. That's my gauge. But the second they start pointing to fables as fact and then try to legislate around that? Something that affects my life and the lives of others who don't buy in to Christianity? Kiss off.
@BohemianBabe Hmm -- good point. I'll think deeply about that. Perhaps we need to evolve a new culture which rewards proven facts and gently puts fables into the realm of folk tales. Perhaps proven lies could be actively discouraged. I think the best way would be to teach analytical, ethical and emotional intelligence skills in schools from age four and upwards - starting with simple and basic, and gradually increasing in complexity. But there are still useful things in those old stories - ways to understand human nature such as we can find in Jungian interpretations of Ancient Greek myths.
‘When men cease to believe in God they don’t believe in nothing they believe in anything’ (Chesterton) You are seeing the outworkings in our society. Interesting at the beginning of the 20th century Bertrand Russell said that philosophy like you have toted above would leave their young people into utopia. Just count the wars in the 20th century and a number of people killed in them and the military dictatorships based around atheism. Utopia? But then people like you believe anything
@Mathers Would you mind enlightening us on that a bit ? For the most part, scientists look for practical applications for knowledge. You keep implying that disbelief in god somehow leads to frivolous ventures. Where do you get this idea ?
Not at all we see people believing in the most stupid things in our society. Just read the social commentators. We don’t even know what a woman is . Stop bury your head in the sand little man@DocSavage
Perhaps they are simply afraid of questioning or of being questioned; afraid of being disobeyed; afraid that they might be wrong; afraid of uncertainty; afraid of people with broader minds, curiosity and knowledge than theirs; afraid that understanding what science discovers does not mean you still cannot believe in God.
They don't give a reason because they are afraid to give a reason, or have none; and if you press them too hard most of them have only two ways to turn - to consider you an enemy and to hide behind their "word of God" phrase.
Ironical though that they use the Internet to spread their hatred of science and learning!
I believe in science and also believe that bits and pieces of religion fit in with the timeline, so a little bit of both. Can we not believe that God intended the dinosaurs before mankind? And that Adam and Eve were apes?
@DecafD There are plenty (a majority) of Christians who believe the OT is a metaphor of social development (a grand social narrative used to unite the evolving Jewish tribes in a common set of values). Lutherans, Anglicans, Catholics, Unitarians and many other believers hold that physics, chemistry and evolution are the means by which God created the universe and everything in it. In fact, those who wrote the US Declaration of Independence and the constitution believed this. The emergence of far right, fundamentalist and Creationist Christians is a relatively new phenomenon of the last forty years or so.
@DocSavage Yes, I've noticed that in the posts between you two. I'm not sure yet whether that's how he reacts to you, or whether he treats everyone the same. I'll wait and see.
@hartfire Last post, he said he would present evidence. Then refused until I describe what I consider to be evidence. I said, present it, and then we can discuss it. He refused and changed the subject. He want you to answer you own questions. He repeatedly does this.
@DocSavage It is odd behaviour. It's hard to figure what his motive is, unless he just wants to see how people think. I think he might be young and poorly educated. The avoidance of backing his own arguments might be due to a fear of having his belief attacked or undermined.
Im of the mind that every new piece of knowledge or understanding should be added, to what i/we already know . And then allow that new information to mix and mingle with everything else and see how it settles.
Some things get rejected, some things make old ideas get rejected, some things put a whole new light on what i think i already know.
But then i dont believe god is a static entity, it think god is an ever evolving force, like everything else. Which opens me up to changing my ideas about god. And i dont think the science of reality and spiritual reality are independently exclusive.
