So these days most Christians say marriage is between one man and one woman...but the patriarchs of the OT often had many wives.... [Spirituality & Religion]
[b]When and why did that rule change?[/b]
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I think most Jews will tell you that polygamy has never been the norm. The usual reasons a man marries again in the bible is because of infertility, legal necessity or loss of loved one. Leaders were known to marry multiple times or have concubines. This was more a power move than anything.
Where Christianity comes in, the New Testament gets a lot more explicit about one man and one woman. Hard to read Paul's stuff and think he'd ever be ok with polygamy. Jesus too doubled down on it by talking against adultery and even looking at other women.
Then there's Islam... Muhammad himself was a polygamist so some Islamic groups think polygamy is fine.
Lastly there's Mormons. Officially they aren't for it but their members do practise it. So much so that Utah decriminalised it this year.
Where Christianity comes in, the New Testament gets a lot more explicit about one man and one woman. Hard to read Paul's stuff and think he'd ever be ok with polygamy. Jesus too doubled down on it by talking against adultery and even looking at other women.
Then there's Islam... Muhammad himself was a polygamist so some Islamic groups think polygamy is fine.
Lastly there's Mormons. Officially they aren't for it but their members do practise it. So much so that Utah decriminalised it this year.
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Polygamy is difficult and expensive.
In the ancient Middle East it was only the rich and the rulers who could afford to have multiple wives. Stories from within those cultures show that there was immense conflict between the wives; murdering each other's offspring for the sake of power and inheritances was not uncommon.
At the time of Mohammed, war was so widespread and constant that there were four women for every one man. Parents were burying their infant girls alive (a "natural" death) because there were no marriage prospects for the girls, who would have become an economic burden on the family.
Mohammed tried to resolve this by decreeing that a man could have up to four wives, but only if he was rich enough to support them and their children. The first wife had the rule of the household and the right to refuse other wives or particular individuals as wives. Each subsequent wife also had the right to refuse other wives.
Naturally, it didn't succeed in resolving all the problems.
It's not surprising that one on one primary partnerships tend to be the norm in most cultures around the world.
But humans are polymorphous perverse, so there will always be exceptions and occasionally some of them will work very well.
In the ancient Middle East it was only the rich and the rulers who could afford to have multiple wives. Stories from within those cultures show that there was immense conflict between the wives; murdering each other's offspring for the sake of power and inheritances was not uncommon.
At the time of Mohammed, war was so widespread and constant that there were four women for every one man. Parents were burying their infant girls alive (a "natural" death) because there were no marriage prospects for the girls, who would have become an economic burden on the family.
Mohammed tried to resolve this by decreeing that a man could have up to four wives, but only if he was rich enough to support them and their children. The first wife had the rule of the household and the right to refuse other wives or particular individuals as wives. Each subsequent wife also had the right to refuse other wives.
Naturally, it didn't succeed in resolving all the problems.
It's not surprising that one on one primary partnerships tend to be the norm in most cultures around the world.
But humans are polymorphous perverse, so there will always be exceptions and occasionally some of them will work very well.
Lichocolati · 31-35, F
@hartfire I've never seen a Christian doing polygamy. It's mostly people who believe in ancestors who do it. Like my uncle I don't know how to describe what he is in English. He's some sort of psychic medium who heels the sick. People who practice black magic can send some evil spirit to trouble your life, they say he can't cast it out.
Did the guys give you more attention when you filled out a bit 😉.
No they do not use composing loos. Is there people who do?
The cultural gap sometimes causes divisions. Some people from the rural areas can't understand English. I lived in South Africa for like 10 years and my everyday speech is a mix of all the languages I know and that's 4. Some people might find me pompous from both in the city and rurals. You know people get intimidated when you know something they don't. Though people from the city and rurals speak the same language they differ in some places because city people are always making up new slang words. People from the city can be barely dressed just to be [c=#BF0080][b]slay queens[/b][/c] as they call it whereas rural people are always wearing decent clothing if you get the picture. When city people come to the rurals with that kind of clothing people voice their disapproval because they don't want their kids to adopt such things.
I've never been to any music festival. I mostly love Christian music but when I get that money it probably would be one of the first things I do. I got like 5 family members living in Australia. I myself am from Africa and don't know much about the place 😆.
I don't know much about legacies. I never do follow ups.
Did the guys give you more attention when you filled out a bit 😉.
No they do not use composing loos. Is there people who do?
The cultural gap sometimes causes divisions. Some people from the rural areas can't understand English. I lived in South Africa for like 10 years and my everyday speech is a mix of all the languages I know and that's 4. Some people might find me pompous from both in the city and rurals. You know people get intimidated when you know something they don't. Though people from the city and rurals speak the same language they differ in some places because city people are always making up new slang words. People from the city can be barely dressed just to be [c=#BF0080][b]slay queens[/b][/c] as they call it whereas rural people are always wearing decent clothing if you get the picture. When city people come to the rurals with that kind of clothing people voice their disapproval because they don't want their kids to adopt such things.
I've never been to any music festival. I mostly love Christian music but when I get that money it probably would be one of the first things I do. I got like 5 family members living in Australia. I myself am from Africa and don't know much about the place 😆.
I don't know much about legacies. I never do follow ups.
@Lichocolati No guys gave me more attention after I'd filled out. By then I'd become too old and wrinkly. In fact they pay me less, pretend not to see me at all (unless it's to offer to carry a box of groceries to the car).
Composting loos are a great solution for waterless situations. Once the compost is well rotted down, it can be used as fertiliser of fruit trees. People who live green and ecological lives have them in or just outside their houses. They are designed with special air vents so they don't stink. Sawdust or other compostable materials are added in.
Yeah - I know what you mean when you say people get intimidated when you know something they don't. Some do. In some situations knowledge can be power and some people misuse it. some find it unpleasant because they thinks it's showing off or playing one-upmanship. Personally, I enjoy it when people are willing to share their knowledge; I love learning.
Four languages is great! How do the differences in these languages affect the ways you think? Do some give you words and concepts that don't exist in the others?
Composting loos are a great solution for waterless situations. Once the compost is well rotted down, it can be used as fertiliser of fruit trees. People who live green and ecological lives have them in or just outside their houses. They are designed with special air vents so they don't stink. Sawdust or other compostable materials are added in.
Yeah - I know what you mean when you say people get intimidated when you know something they don't. Some do. In some situations knowledge can be power and some people misuse it. some find it unpleasant because they thinks it's showing off or playing one-upmanship. Personally, I enjoy it when people are willing to share their knowledge; I love learning.
Four languages is great! How do the differences in these languages affect the ways you think? Do some give you words and concepts that don't exist in the others?
Lichocolati · 31-35, F
@hartfire I never knew about human loos😅. They got lots of cow dug here from the livestock for fertilization.
I love learning too but some people hate to be the last ones to know something.
I don't believe my way of thinking has been affected in anyway. Life experiences have left me open minded though. Yes some give you words and concepts that don't exist in the others
I love learning too but some people hate to be the last ones to know something.
I don't believe my way of thinking has been affected in anyway. Life experiences have left me open minded though. Yes some give you words and concepts that don't exist in the others
SW-User
It changed in the hundreds of years between the production of and across the different societies producing the two halves of the Bible. If another testament were written now, it would probably condemn slavery (which neither the OT nor NT do). Polygamy has long been associated with powerful men and fertility. And since the OT is focused on telling the story of how the nation of Israel came to be and fulfill its destiny, it places emphasis on the fertility of the patriarchs.
@SW-User The NT talks against slavery. You must serve God and therefore can't serve man.
Matthew 4:10
You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.
Matthew 6:24
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other.
Galatians 1:10
I’m not trying to win the approval of people, but of God. If pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ’s servant.
Romans 6:16
Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey.
Matthew 4:10
You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.
Matthew 6:24
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other.
Galatians 1:10
I’m not trying to win the approval of people, but of God. If pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ’s servant.
Romans 6:16
Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey.
SW-User
@Qwerty14 I'd consider it a bit of a stretch to link any of these verses with a condemnation of forced unpaid labor (the sense in which I meant "slavery" above). It seems a bit odd to condemn slavery by admonishing the slaves (i.e. "don't choose to become slaves"). In each of these cases, serving God is contrasted with serving substitutes for God that will lead nowhere good (money/greed, wickedness, sin). Love of money, love of sin...these lead to serving a false god and death. I don't think anyone would argue that slaves worship and love their master as they should be worshiping God.
I am not claiming the NT [i]condones[/i] slavery, but nor does it repudiate it.
I am not claiming the NT [i]condones[/i] slavery, but nor does it repudiate it.
@SW-User I both agree and disagree with you. These passages also compare service to non tangible things like money. But you can't serve both man and God. Jesus was pretty clear about this. In fact in Matthew 18 and 24 we have the parables of the unforgiving and faithful servants both describing God as the master to humans. Paul also followed this up regularly calling himself a slave to Christ and even said this:
[quote]Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Corinthians 7:22 For whoever was called in the Lord as a slave is a freed person belonging to the Lord, just as whoever was free when called is a slave of Christ.[/quote]
The notion of slavery is definitely not meant to by followed by Christians. Once you find Christ, you are no longer tied to man and instead are a servant of the lord.
You might say "well why not just say outright DONT OWN SLAVES" and you're right. The bible doesn't say those exact words. In fact, at times Paul tells slaves to serve their masters faithfully. But it is all about the climate of Judea, Israel, Greece and Rome at the time. In The City of God, St Augustine summed it up quite well:
[quote]Moreover, when men are subjected to one another in a peaceful order, the lowly position does as much good to the servant as the proud position does harm to the master. But by nature, as God first created us, no one is the slave either of man or of sin. This servitude is, however, penal, and is appointed by that law which enjoins the preservation of the natural order and forbids its disturbance; for if nothing had been done in violation of that law, there would have been nothing to restrain by penal servitude. And therefore the apostle admonishes slaves to be subject to their masters, and to serve them heartily and with good-will, so that, if they cannot be freed by their masters, they may themselves make their slavery in some sort free, by serving not in crafty fear, but in faithful love, until all unrighteousness pass away, and all principality and every human power be brought to nothing, and God be all in all[/quote]
[quote]Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Corinthians 7:22 For whoever was called in the Lord as a slave is a freed person belonging to the Lord, just as whoever was free when called is a slave of Christ.[/quote]
The notion of slavery is definitely not meant to by followed by Christians. Once you find Christ, you are no longer tied to man and instead are a servant of the lord.
You might say "well why not just say outright DONT OWN SLAVES" and you're right. The bible doesn't say those exact words. In fact, at times Paul tells slaves to serve their masters faithfully. But it is all about the climate of Judea, Israel, Greece and Rome at the time. In The City of God, St Augustine summed it up quite well:
[quote]Moreover, when men are subjected to one another in a peaceful order, the lowly position does as much good to the servant as the proud position does harm to the master. But by nature, as God first created us, no one is the slave either of man or of sin. This servitude is, however, penal, and is appointed by that law which enjoins the preservation of the natural order and forbids its disturbance; for if nothing had been done in violation of that law, there would have been nothing to restrain by penal servitude. And therefore the apostle admonishes slaves to be subject to their masters, and to serve them heartily and with good-will, so that, if they cannot be freed by their masters, they may themselves make their slavery in some sort free, by serving not in crafty fear, but in faithful love, until all unrighteousness pass away, and all principality and every human power be brought to nothing, and God be all in all[/quote]
TheWildEcho · 56-60, M
Lichocolati · 31-35, F
I don't like polygamy but some women don't mind their men having more than one wife
Lichocolati · 31-35, F
@Pikachu Sharing is weird
REMsleep · 41-45, F
The tribes people had cultural norms vs religious norms. In that region plural wives was common. This was not promoted as ideal in the religion but only allowed. This was also for practical resons. Jews never did this as heavily as other neighbors anyway.
There were several things allowed in the old days that were not Gods preference for us.
Jesus says that a marriage is between one man and one woman.
Gods purpose is eternal. Commands can change
There were several things allowed in the old days that were not Gods preference for us.
Jesus says that a marriage is between one man and one woman.
Gods purpose is eternal. Commands can change
