So these days most Christians say marriage is between one man and one woman...but the patriarchs of the OT often had many wives.... [Spirituality & Religion]
When and why did that rule change?
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hartfire · 61-69
Polygamy is difficult and expensive.
In the ancient Middle East it was only the rich and the rulers who could afford to have multiple wives. Stories from within those cultures show that there was immense conflict between the wives; murdering each other's offspring for the sake of power and inheritances was not uncommon.
At the time of Mohammed, war was so widespread and constant that there were four women for every one man. Parents were burying their infant girls alive (a "natural" death) because there were no marriage prospects for the girls, who would have become an economic burden on the family.
Mohammed tried to resolve this by decreeing that a man could have up to four wives, but only if he was rich enough to support them and their children. The first wife had the rule of the household and the right to refuse other wives or particular individuals as wives. Each subsequent wife also had the right to refuse other wives.
Naturally, it didn't succeed in resolving all the problems.
It's not surprising that one on one primary partnerships tend to be the norm in most cultures around the world.
But humans are polymorphous perverse, so there will always be exceptions and occasionally some of them will work very well.
In the ancient Middle East it was only the rich and the rulers who could afford to have multiple wives. Stories from within those cultures show that there was immense conflict between the wives; murdering each other's offspring for the sake of power and inheritances was not uncommon.
At the time of Mohammed, war was so widespread and constant that there were four women for every one man. Parents were burying their infant girls alive (a "natural" death) because there were no marriage prospects for the girls, who would have become an economic burden on the family.
Mohammed tried to resolve this by decreeing that a man could have up to four wives, but only if he was rich enough to support them and their children. The first wife had the rule of the household and the right to refuse other wives or particular individuals as wives. Each subsequent wife also had the right to refuse other wives.
Naturally, it didn't succeed in resolving all the problems.
It's not surprising that one on one primary partnerships tend to be the norm in most cultures around the world.
But humans are polymorphous perverse, so there will always be exceptions and occasionally some of them will work very well.
hartfire · 61-69
@Pikachu
I wonder about polyandrous cultures such as in the highlands of Tibet and Bhutan. Generally at least one man from each family joins a monastery for life. A woman marries all the men of one of the neighbouring families to ensure that the farming land is not divided up through the generations.
There's almost no war up there.
So does that mean that for some strange reason far more men are born than women. Does it mean that many women remain single, stay in the family and help out as aunts and farmhand?
How could one woman cope with the sexual needs of more than one young man?
What stops the brothers from feeling jealous?
I can't find any info about how the system works behind closed doors.
And yet it has been going on for many centuries and, until the recent intervention of China in Tibet and Westernisation in Bhutan, they've been among the most stable and peaceful of all cultures in the world.
What is their secret?
I wonder about polyandrous cultures such as in the highlands of Tibet and Bhutan. Generally at least one man from each family joins a monastery for life. A woman marries all the men of one of the neighbouring families to ensure that the farming land is not divided up through the generations.
There's almost no war up there.
So does that mean that for some strange reason far more men are born than women. Does it mean that many women remain single, stay in the family and help out as aunts and farmhand?
How could one woman cope with the sexual needs of more than one young man?
What stops the brothers from feeling jealous?
I can't find any info about how the system works behind closed doors.
And yet it has been going on for many centuries and, until the recent intervention of China in Tibet and Westernisation in Bhutan, they've been among the most stable and peaceful of all cultures in the world.
What is their secret?
hartfire · 61-69
@Pikachu I have a theory that not all humans are naturally monogamous - that it depends how much oxytocin they have - the bonding hormone.
I think monogamy works better if both partners naturally prefer just one partner.
Trying to force things via customs or morals can often make things harder.
Consider the Catholic countries of Europe. They tend to be far more forgiving of affairs as long as the married couple stick together to raise the kids.
I think monogamy works better if both partners naturally prefer just one partner.
Trying to force things via customs or morals can often make things harder.
Consider the Catholic countries of Europe. They tend to be far more forgiving of affairs as long as the married couple stick together to raise the kids.
Lichocolati · 36-40, F
@hartfire Polygamy is common in Southern Africa. The law allows it too. Everything you described on your post about polygamy happens here to this day. The rules though have been loosened over the years. My step sister was involved with a guy from a tribe that has polygamy as a common thing than most. She was open minded about him marrying another woman in the future. Problem is he had a regular job. He expected her to have a job of her own to help him with the expenses when they did get married but she wanted to be housewife. Things didn't end well between them. I think guys with money should be the only ones taking multiple wives
hartfire · 61-69
@Lichocolati Or perhaps when they're thinking of marriage they can discuss their expectations and needs. If they'd talked about it beforehand they might have avoided the divorce.
If polygamy is common, what happens to all the men left without wives?
If polygamy is common, what happens to all the men left without wives?
Lichocolati · 36-40, F
@hartfire They never married. They just dated. The guy did talk to her about his expectations but I guess she had made up her mind about her decision. I myself tried to advise her to do something with her life but I guess she thought she wouldn't be able to work cause she's a bit overweight and tires easily. Not every guy has more than one wife. The percentage of people doing it has reduced over time. People have adopted to Western ways.
hartfire · 61-69
@Lichocolati
It sounds like maybe it was a pity that your step-sister had no interest in working. It can be such a fulfilling and wonderful aspect of life. Weight can be a problem; too much can definitely sap energy and health. I've heard that big women are considered attractive in Africa; is that true?
I'm fascinated to be meeting someone living in Africa. What country and what region or city?
What is the dominant faith where you are? Is it Islam?
From TV, I get the impression that the cities are highly modernised, but that out in the rural areas, many still live according to centuries-old traditions? Is that so?
From your perspective over there, what impressions of the West do you get from TV, films, news, and social media?
(I would not be offended if you were critical.)
It sounds like maybe it was a pity that your step-sister had no interest in working. It can be such a fulfilling and wonderful aspect of life. Weight can be a problem; too much can definitely sap energy and health. I've heard that big women are considered attractive in Africa; is that true?
I'm fascinated to be meeting someone living in Africa. What country and what region or city?
What is the dominant faith where you are? Is it Islam?
From TV, I get the impression that the cities are highly modernised, but that out in the rural areas, many still live according to centuries-old traditions? Is that so?
From your perspective over there, what impressions of the West do you get from TV, films, news, and social media?
(I would not be offended if you were critical.)
Lichocolati · 36-40, F
@hartfire I think she was very shy being in public. People often make fun of her weight and she rarely goes outside. Even when she's out she tries to be as invisible as possible.
Yes here in Africa curves are considered a thing. Some even use creams to enhance their curves just to fit in which can be dangerous. I'm more on the skinny side and when I was younger guys barely noticed me. Their eyes were mostly on those with thick thighs and hips. It was hard. But then again not all of them like the same type. Some were crazy about my skinny body and it always made my day. Sounds pathetic I know😊.
I'm from Zimbabwe and I lived in the city of Bulawayo before I came to the farm after the lockdown. Christianity dominates Southern Africa. My parents have land in a rural area. They have a normal house with a kitchen, bedrooms and living room but because they don't have running water they use pit latrines. They have huts with thatched roofs as the main kitchen where they cook. You can call this Rural Lite .Some rurals are so remote they only have thatched houses and multiple people sleep in the same room married or not. They can't even afford a toilet and have to go to the bushes. Some have running water though.It's really about what can you afford.
Western TV shows and social media have influenced the way people in the cities speak, dress and behave. Even the governments are calling whooping your kids abuse now. Growing up my mom used to spank me regularly and I never saw it as abuse. It made me to be the person I am today. Of course some parents don't care about that law mostly because the governments are not really strict about it unless of course there's witnesses
Yes here in Africa curves are considered a thing. Some even use creams to enhance their curves just to fit in which can be dangerous. I'm more on the skinny side and when I was younger guys barely noticed me. Their eyes were mostly on those with thick thighs and hips. It was hard. But then again not all of them like the same type. Some were crazy about my skinny body and it always made my day. Sounds pathetic I know😊.
I'm from Zimbabwe and I lived in the city of Bulawayo before I came to the farm after the lockdown. Christianity dominates Southern Africa. My parents have land in a rural area. They have a normal house with a kitchen, bedrooms and living room but because they don't have running water they use pit latrines. They have huts with thatched roofs as the main kitchen where they cook. You can call this Rural Lite .Some rurals are so remote they only have thatched houses and multiple people sleep in the same room married or not. They can't even afford a toilet and have to go to the bushes. Some have running water though.It's really about what can you afford.
Western TV shows and social media have influenced the way people in the cities speak, dress and behave. Even the governments are calling whooping your kids abuse now. Growing up my mom used to spank me regularly and I never saw it as abuse. It made me to be the person I am today. Of course some parents don't care about that law mostly because the governments are not really strict about it unless of course there's witnesses
hartfire · 61-69
@Lichocolati That's all very interesting.
The idea of polygamy in a predominantly Christian country surprises me, unless they are mostly Mormons.
I was very thin when young too - and got the same reactions from men. Now, I'm filled out, but far from overweight.
Do people there without running water ever use composting loos?
It sounds as though quite a big cultural gap is evolving between the city and rural people.
I hope it doesn't lead to conflict.
We have quite a few African immigrants here in Australia now. They have all kinds of jobs in all niches. There is African music performed live in the cities and at festivals.
Many places have African restaurants. And African experts often appear on our national broadcaster's current affairs programs. But Africa is so hugely diverse and complex that its dizzying. So much detail that I think it would be very difficult to get an accurate idea without living and travelling there for a long time.
I worry about the effect of the legacies left over from colonial days. My friend Dede, a Greek who grew up in South Africa, tells me that the legacies are both good and bad.
The idea of polygamy in a predominantly Christian country surprises me, unless they are mostly Mormons.
I was very thin when young too - and got the same reactions from men. Now, I'm filled out, but far from overweight.
Do people there without running water ever use composting loos?
It sounds as though quite a big cultural gap is evolving between the city and rural people.
I hope it doesn't lead to conflict.
We have quite a few African immigrants here in Australia now. They have all kinds of jobs in all niches. There is African music performed live in the cities and at festivals.
Many places have African restaurants. And African experts often appear on our national broadcaster's current affairs programs. But Africa is so hugely diverse and complex that its dizzying. So much detail that I think it would be very difficult to get an accurate idea without living and travelling there for a long time.
I worry about the effect of the legacies left over from colonial days. My friend Dede, a Greek who grew up in South Africa, tells me that the legacies are both good and bad.
Lichocolati · 36-40, F
@hartfire I've never seen a Christian doing polygamy. It's mostly people who believe in ancestors who do it. Like my uncle I don't know how to describe what he is in English. He's some sort of psychic medium who heels the sick. People who practice black magic can send some evil spirit to trouble your life, they say he can't cast it out.
Did the guys give you more attention when you filled out a bit 😉.
No they do not use composing loos. Is there people who do?
The cultural gap sometimes causes divisions. Some people from the rural areas can't understand English. I lived in South Africa for like 10 years and my everyday speech is a mix of all the languages I know and that's 4. Some people might find me pompous from both in the city and rurals. You know people get intimidated when you know something they don't. Though people from the city and rurals speak the same language they differ in some places because city people are always making up new slang words. People from the city can be barely dressed just to be slay queens as they call it whereas rural people are always wearing decent clothing if you get the picture. When city people come to the rurals with that kind of clothing people voice their disapproval because they don't want their kids to adopt such things.
I've never been to any music festival. I mostly love Christian music but when I get that money it probably would be one of the first things I do. I got like 5 family members living in Australia. I myself am from Africa and don't know much about the place 😆.
I don't know much about legacies. I never do follow ups.
Did the guys give you more attention when you filled out a bit 😉.
No they do not use composing loos. Is there people who do?
The cultural gap sometimes causes divisions. Some people from the rural areas can't understand English. I lived in South Africa for like 10 years and my everyday speech is a mix of all the languages I know and that's 4. Some people might find me pompous from both in the city and rurals. You know people get intimidated when you know something they don't. Though people from the city and rurals speak the same language they differ in some places because city people are always making up new slang words. People from the city can be barely dressed just to be slay queens as they call it whereas rural people are always wearing decent clothing if you get the picture. When city people come to the rurals with that kind of clothing people voice their disapproval because they don't want their kids to adopt such things.
I've never been to any music festival. I mostly love Christian music but when I get that money it probably would be one of the first things I do. I got like 5 family members living in Australia. I myself am from Africa and don't know much about the place 😆.
I don't know much about legacies. I never do follow ups.
hartfire · 61-69
@Lichocolati No guys gave me more attention after I'd filled out. By then I'd become too old and wrinkly. In fact they pay me less, pretend not to see me at all (unless it's to offer to carry a box of groceries to the car).
Composting loos are a great solution for waterless situations. Once the compost is well rotted down, it can be used as fertiliser of fruit trees. People who live green and ecological lives have them in or just outside their houses. They are designed with special air vents so they don't stink. Sawdust or other compostable materials are added in.
Yeah - I know what you mean when you say people get intimidated when you know something they don't. Some do. In some situations knowledge can be power and some people misuse it. some find it unpleasant because they thinks it's showing off or playing one-upmanship. Personally, I enjoy it when people are willing to share their knowledge; I love learning.
Four languages is great! How do the differences in these languages affect the ways you think? Do some give you words and concepts that don't exist in the others?
Composting loos are a great solution for waterless situations. Once the compost is well rotted down, it can be used as fertiliser of fruit trees. People who live green and ecological lives have them in or just outside their houses. They are designed with special air vents so they don't stink. Sawdust or other compostable materials are added in.
Yeah - I know what you mean when you say people get intimidated when you know something they don't. Some do. In some situations knowledge can be power and some people misuse it. some find it unpleasant because they thinks it's showing off or playing one-upmanship. Personally, I enjoy it when people are willing to share their knowledge; I love learning.
Four languages is great! How do the differences in these languages affect the ways you think? Do some give you words and concepts that don't exist in the others?
Lichocolati · 36-40, F
@hartfire I never knew about human loos😅. They got lots of cow dug here from the livestock for fertilization.
I love learning too but some people hate to be the last ones to know something.
I don't believe my way of thinking has been affected in anyway. Life experiences have left me open minded though. Yes some give you words and concepts that don't exist in the others
I love learning too but some people hate to be the last ones to know something.
I don't believe my way of thinking has been affected in anyway. Life experiences have left me open minded though. Yes some give you words and concepts that don't exist in the others