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Nina's Blog - Wednesday 2nd October 2024

Wednesday 2nd October 2024, 10:04

Gloriously sunny. But the sky was clear overnight so it's only 5C and there is a stiff northerly breeze blowing.

A sailor going against the trend, going out on the water instead of taking the boat out of the water. Heading south down the fjord

The Swan family again, but notice that Mr Swan isn't in the picture

That's because it seems that I had come across their nesting spot. He wasn't at all pleased to see me walk past

Looking north toward the inner fjord
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
"Chips"? Or "crisps" in a packet labelled in a mixture of Norwegian and American? :-)

I didn't realise the words "salt" and "pepper" are the same in both languages.

Perhaps Matt couldn't decide if Norway or New Zealand, which uses the same word fjord for its own marine-drowned glacial valleys!

That swan was certainly determined to see you off. Have you visited Abbotsbury Swannery? Although the swans there are all wild and free to come and go as they please, they are so used to people and the Fleet lagoon is so much to their liking, that many of them build nests right next to the footpaths around the reserve.
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@ArishMell Yes crisps are chips here. And in my opinion Norwegian made crisps are the best in the world.

Salt comes from Latin sal in both languages. Norwegian is very closely related to English in practice even if a strict linguistic family tree suggests otherwise.

For instance this from Glottolog (https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/nort3175) suggests that English is more closely related to German than it is to Norwegian.

But in fact modern Norwegian syntax is pretty much the same as modern English and if you squint a bit and speak with a Geordie accent you can see and hear that a number of common words are the same or similar in the two languages. In some cases the pronunciation has drifted, in my opinion because of the influence of writing. So skjære became skerry

Norsk English
bag = bag
bok = book
bolt = bolt
båt = boat
bøtte = bucket
eple = apple
flaske = flask, bottle
flat = flat
formel = formula
grådig = greedy
hjul = wheel, try pronouncing it Scots style hweel.
hus = house
høy = high
in = in as in fashionable
inne = in as in inside
is = ice, Norwegian s is always not z
kirke = church
knive = knife
land = land, country
lav = low
mugge = mug, jug
ofte = often
rest = rest, remaining
ryggsekk = rucksack
sand = sand
sekk = sack, bag
sjø = sea
skip = ship
skrue = screw
skrue løs = screw loose
stein = stone
ut = out
vei = way, road
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@ninalanyon
Thank you for that ord-bok!

I did try to learn basic Norwegian and thought it easier than French or German, but I am not good at learning languages beyond a few politenesses and everyday words, and a peculiar collection of geographical name elements. Knowing what Kvitfjell and kirke mean would not be much help if I were lost in Oslo city-centre.


Aye and Nay... Yorkshire-speak is richly Scandinavian, and the Dales (another one) even has one a particular stream called "Fell Beck" that not only means Fjell Bekk but describes it exactly. More accurately it is on a fjell between three dalen.

Of which one, Chapel-le-Dale, seems to combine English, French and Norwegian. Norman perhaps? Those 1066 invaders from France were descended from Norse settlers but their own languages were Latin and Latin-inspired, Early French.

There are many thoroughfares called [name] Gate, in the old parts of Northern English towns, and I wonder if this really means ~ Street, not citing Mediaeval defensive barriers even if they once started at one.

Kirke is kirk in Scotland, where, as in Northumbria, a barn is a bairn, though they use "grand" not chains of "barns" to denote family lines.

I wonder where the first half of rucksack originated, and what it meant? The item and its name are relatively modern, and ruck / rygge looks Germanic.

I'm amused to see both countries use "screw loose"!

Rather sad that the snack makers use the American term rather than English - I consider Norway and Britain rather closer in more than just geography, than the USA and UK.
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@ArishMell Ryggsekk is rygg = back or spine and sekk = sack. And yes, the back is der rucken in Germanic

Nay and nei seem obviously the same word, but English aye seems only distantly related to norsk ja to me.

Well kirke might be useful in Oslo if you wanted to find a church :-)

I'm very bad at languages too. It took me five years to learn Norwegian well enough to be useful and even now over thirty years later a general conversation about politics or history is pretty stressful. I can manage more technical discussions in my field much more easily. Learning it was made more difficult by Norwegians being so willing or indeed eager to switch to English. I had one colleague who just wouldn't speak Norwegian with me because he was to impatient to wait for me to find the right Norwegian word.

As for the politenesses, I've found them to be counterproductive because after a bit of practice my accent in Polish or German or Chinese became good enough to convince the locals that I know more than just "good morning". Some would respond just with the appropriate formula which was fine but others would start a conversation about the weather or current affairs and were mystified when I looked totally blank.