Freedom of Speech

The concept is very much under scrutiny right now. If there are consequences for speech then does freedom of speech exist?

I would argue that freedom of speech only applies to criminal law, not civil or employment law. You should be protected from criminal prosecution but not from civil or employment action. If you say something controversial then you don't go to jail, that's freedom of speech. If you say something controversial and get fired from your job, that's a business protecting its brand. If you have issue with the fairness of your dismissal then you handle that via employment tribunal.

If you say something controversial and get sued then that would fall under defamation, namely slander or libel. You should not have the freedom to lie where it is to the detriment of others.

When people campaign to get you fired for saying controversial things, that's not an attack on your freedom of speech. That's not the state imposing or enforcing a law which stifles your freedom.

In essence, freedom of speech is a contract between you and the state, not you and every other individual or business.

That's my take on it 🤔

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gol979 · 41-45, M

No one has signed a contract with the state

Pretzel · 70-79, M

@gol979 it is a social contract and implied by your voluntarily living within the confines of a political boundary.

glad that same thing doesn't happen when you walk into a new car showroom

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Pretzel absolutely not. Just because you are born doesnt mean there is a preordained "social contract". If you think that then you might as well put the shackles on yourself

ostfuidctyvm

@gol979 I didn't sign any contact to obey the law either, but that contract exists. You don't need to sign a contract to have a contract exist. Contract law is very clear on that.

Pretzel · 70-79, M

@gol979 I understand your feeling that way - but it is why people can put on silly clothes and stop other people on the highway and write on a piece of paper and make you pay money for not obeying rules.

or put you in a jail, make you go to a court, and put you in jail.

resist that contract and they will force you to comply

gol979 · 41-45, M

@ostfuidctyvm so contract law states that you dont have to have a contract for there to be a contract in place. Thats absurd.

Again, i havent signed any contract with any state/government. If you are going to enforce it upon me thats tyrannical/authoritarian and the "social contract" is just a trick to be able to "legally" force you to comply.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Pretzel so its just a term used to force compliance. No thanks

ostfuidctyvm

@gol979 That's not what I said. Contracts require an offer and acceptance. Acceptance doesn't have to be signed, it can be verbal and it can be made implicit by your actions. You enter into contracts all the time, such as when you eat in a restaurant. It is an implied contract. You don't sign anything saying that you'll pay for your meal but you are contractually bound to do so unless the restaurant has failed to live up to their own obligations under that implied contract.

If you're thinking of contracts as pieces of paper with signatures then you need to read up on contract law.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@ostfuidctyvm going into a restaurant is not "entering a contract", thats also absurd. Look, if you want to !ive in a world where human interaction is driven by corporate language and imaginary contracts feel free. Just leave everyone else out of it.

SunshineGirl · 36-40, F

@gol979 Under English contract law, a valid contract does not have to be written. It can be implied by the words and/or actions of one or more of the parties.

The same with a social contract. By participating in society and benefiting from public goods, you signal your willingness to be bound by the rules of that society.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@SunshineGirl there is no such thing as a social contract, its pure imagination.

SunshineGirl · 36-40, F

@gol979 What causes you to follow laws? Or the conventions of the society you live in?

gol979 · 41-45, M

@SunshineGirl not an imaginary social contract that you think everyone enters into when they are born

SunshineGirl · 36-40, F

@gol979 Try ordering your meal, eating it, then walking out of the restaurant without paying. Then tell us how "imaginary" that non-written contract is 🍽

gol979 · 41-45, M

@SunshineGirl thats called theft.....nothing to do with this imaginary "contract" you keep referring to

SunshineGirl · 36-40, F

@gol979 So why is it not theft (or indeed trespass) while you are sitting down in the restaurant consuming goods that you have neither paid for or entered a written contract to buy?

gol979 · 41-45, M

@SunshineGirl because they are wanting to earn a living.....again, not because of some fairy tale "social contract"