I Have Something to Say

@SW-User So someone who makes an effort to always do the right thing and live a good life is, by your definition, not a good person? People who have not had the opportunity to hear about your God can't be good people? Not a very loving attitude.

@SW-User Allegedly!

@Bushranger
Do you read the Bible?
Man is not capable of being good left to our own devices, “they are as filthy rags”.

@SomeLikeItHot Ok, that's your point of view based on your religious perspective. Personally, I like to think that there is more to humans and that they are capable of behaving properly, even without having a belief in a personal God.

@Bushranger
We can all delude ourselves on unfounded premises. The Abrahamic God has quite a bit of history as “in the beginning” compared to any god you can generate from nothing.

@SW-User I'm going to puke. That's a complete cop-out. Use your own thoughts and words rather than post Scripture verses

@SomeLikeItHot Perhaps you didn't get the bit where I said "...without a belief in a personal God...." My point being that God is not a necessary factor in a person being good.

@SirWhatz
Who are you to judge his use of scripture. Does it lose you that quickly?

@Bushranger
But God is very necessary on someone being good.

@SomeLikeItHot OK, a couple of points here. Would that be the God in which you believe? I don't know what brand of Christianity you belong to (and don't really care), but if I belong to a different brand or even a different religion, would I still be incapable of being good?

@Bushranger
You are a lost puppy!
There is only one Salvation, one Christ.

@SomeLikeItHot OK, I'll take it from that response that you believe only someone who believes in your version of Christianity can be good. As I've said previously, that is your belief and it is obvious that nothing will change your mind.

@Bushranger
You don’t have to listen.
It is obvious your mind is closed.

@SomeLikeItHot Not sure what I don't have to listen to, but I'm willing to listen to a logical discussion. For example, if you could point to proof that all people who have been considered to be good have all been Christians of your particular version, then I would have to reassess my position.

@Bushranger
We couldn’t agree to a definition of good.

@SomeLikeItHot Ah, thank you. You made me realise that my original point was faulty, in that I had not defined what a "good person" is. OK, let's remedy that.

In my opinion, a good person is one who attempts to do no harm to other people (a deeper meaning would include all organisms, but I'm not going that far with this discussion), does what they can to improve the lives of others and tries to be truthful at all times.

Now, we have a definition. Again, thank you for pointing that out to me.

@Bushranger
Eating other animals isn’t evil to me so we have immediate disagreement.
I also served in the military.
I disagree on the premise of hurting others as evil.

@SomeLikeItHot Where did I say that eating animals is evil? Or that killing others is always evil? My words were "...attempts to do no harm..." Are you trying to put words in my mouth?

@Bushranger
“All organisms” are your words

@SomeLikeItHot "...[B]ut I'm not going that far with this discussion...." are the words that I wrote following that, which precludes the concept of not harming all organisms from this discussion.

@SirWhatz Jesus is alright to me.

So, this is the extent of the discussion? Some Biblical quotes, assertion that Jesus is OK and misreading comments and that's it? Anyone want to take it further?

@Bushranger Being 69, you have formulated your opinions about God. There are many "good" people who are spiritually lost.

My faith and belief are in Jesus Christ. Saying Jesus is OK was actually a poor reference to the Doobie Brothers song, Jesus Is Just Alright.

I believe in original sin. All people are born sinful. You do not have to teach a person to lie or to steal. We all have sinned.

That is why Christ came. To die on the cross to forgive us our sins, so that we might have a new, real, living life.

I don't know what you are truly seeking to know bushranger, but I would suggest you read The Gospel of John. If you desire to know true goodness, look to Jesus.

@SW-User Hey, I'm only half way into that age range lol.

You are right that people don't have to be taught to lie. Anyone who has had children knows that they go through a phase where they lie about pretty much anything. It's then up to the parents to teach them that lies are wrong. I don't believe that this behavior is because of original sin, but more a factor of human development; testing out the boundaries of behaviour.

It's possible to guide a child without reference to God, but I'm not going to deny anyone else's right to raise their children as Christians. However, it should be accepted that others don't wish to do so.

@Bushranger [image deleted]They struggle, to explain the above..