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A controversial take I don't think should be controversial

Landed immigrants, foreign students of age and permanently residents, basically anyone who is going to be here long term should be able to vote.

Why? Because they contribute to the economy and the future of the country and the politicians get huge amounts of control over their future. So I believe they should get a say.

You don't have to be a citizen for the government to have huge amounts of control over your daily life, so you should not have to be a citizen to vote. Period.

You don't have a democracy if not every person impacted by the vote gets a say.

I also would lower the voting age to 16 since you don't have to be 18 to enter the workforce and contribute. And I don't think there is any magical wisdom that happens between 16 to 18.
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
41-45, M
54 replies 76 views 4 days ago4 d
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
I absolutely agree.

In the he UK, my immigrant girlfriend can't vote in national elections. She's allowed to vote in council elections but not for MPs. She is politicised and knowledgeable and has legal permanent resident status. She also works full time in a demanding job fwiw .

Sadly, it's not going to happen. The immigration sentiment in the UK is every bit as big as in America. Our Labour government has passed a range of anti migrants measures and Nigel Farage''s Reform party is still top of the polls.

In this climate, she's unlikely to get deported but its a non negligible risk. It's more likely kely than her ever being allowed to vote.
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SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@Burnley123 It is unlikely, but it will look increasingly odd after the voting age is reduced to 16. Anyone who participates in civil society should be fully enfranchised.

Those whose lives were most severely disrupted by Brexit did not get a say in the matter.
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SatanBurger · 36-40, F
I even think others should be able to vote still like felons. To me, it's not really a punishment not being able to vote because it only affects everyone else, not the felon. That's why I think it's silly and they should be able to vote.

But with what you wrote, I agree on all of it, I find most immigrants more patriotic than American citizens especially since immigrant veterans were deported. I'd take any immigrants over traitors to America any day.

Because those people are probably thankful and they work hard, they contribute and even if they didn't, I wouldn't really care all that much as I just want people who are decent in this country. Maga are terrible people.
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Convivial · 26-30, F
@SatanBurger it is by design... They profit from your labour and they profit from the criminality
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SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I wish we could change, it really sucks to live like that.
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@SatanBurger Well if you have ever read the Marquis de Sade it is basically a 18th century version of the Epstein files.

And while he was in prison the guillotines and pitchforks came out and changed it all. Just saying.
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SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
I certainly support the lowering of the voting age. I also think the votes of those in their teens, 20s and 30s should be weighted to count twice as much as those of older people, as they are the ones who will paying for most of the government's mandated programme.
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SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@Convivial It would be linked to age, not tax receipts. So those whose lives are most affected by laws would have a greater say.

If it were by tax contribution, I would calculate the effective tax rate of each decile of the population, which in most countries would result in the richest 10% receiving least representation . . .
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Convivial · 26-30, F
@SunshineGirl still not convinced....I live a stone's throw from Sydney Uni....I see them every day walking across roads, headphones on and looking down at their phones....I don't have a huge faith in their abilities to think yet...
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SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@Convivial Natural selection may account for the more distracted voters 🚙 🚨 🤕
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fanuc2013 · 51-55, F
Then why don't these people become citizens? I personally know people that couldn't wait to take th citizenship test, and did it as soon as they were eligble!
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@whowasthatmaskedman Provinces like here in Manitoba that actually need more students and more educated workers feel like we are being undermined by our own federal government.
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whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Housing is a difficult one. Between the disruption of Covid construction, the supply chain disruptions after. The economic downturn of fragile economies all over, and of course the global trend to corporate buy ups of real estate as an investment/store of value/hedge against recession, its a boom for those with. But a disaster for those trying to buy. On a personal note it took me over 30 years for my home to reach $1Million in value. At this rate my second million is just around the corner for doing nothing.😷
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whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Yes. A stark reminder that in a large, diverse country, it is hard to get every decision right for everyone.. From the outside your PM looks great. But he does need to get voted for next election. Its a sad fact that less populated areas can take second place.😷
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trollslayer · 46-50, M
I can agree maybe for local elections - sheriff, school board, bond issues, etc. anyone who owns property, pays property tax, or has kids in school has a stake in how their money is spent.
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@trollslayer Also realistically the immigrants and foreign students who already own property will realistically be the "golden passport" types that already have special privileges already based on their money back in the old country and in their new country.

Realistically no first generation immigrants are going straight to suburbia unless they already have a head start.
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trollslayer · 46-50, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow idk - I think in a national level you may only want people voting who have demonstrated some kind of long term commitment to that country.
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@trollslayer except none of your criteria has anything to do with commitment.
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@jshm2 you actually made most of the same points I did.

But to call the Saudis democratic is just silly. It is a medieval absolute monarchy. With Bentleys and Lambos.
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Elessar · 31-35, M
The barrier of citizenship exist for good reason; you don't want several hundreds of thousands or even a million of MAGA cross the border, get a "long term" work contract immediately before an election (and come on, they have sympathizers in the entrepreneur class virtually everywhere) cast their vote en masse and "resign" immediately after.

About the voting age, instead, I can agree
+ 2 · Reply · Translate · 3 days ago3 d · Edited: 3 days ago
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@Elessar That could easily be remedied with specifics. I am not talking about every random tourist. I am talking about people like my friend who has been her trying to be a citizen since 2014, works as a teacher and pays taxes but has been stuck in a bureaucratic nightmare.

And if some Canuck version of MAGA got popular someone who would have her randomly deported could get elected and would have zero say in the matter.

none of those people in that scenario would meet those criteria.

I mean we give healthcare to landed immigrants but not every random tourist on vacation.
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redredred · M
The voting age should be raised to 25 and if any cohort of the population should have their vote count more it’s the group that has already put in decades of work and tax paying. Personally I think every vote should count equally.
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Roundandroundwego · 61-69
@redredred live and be used FIRST, grow up maybe. Lolz. I'm loving it for y'all.
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Elessar · 31-35, M
@redredred Raised to 25 why? If it's because you think people 18-25 are easy to manipulate you gotta insert an upper limit at 50 too.
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AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
Respectfully disagree. I was 18 and a resident of a foreign country. I had no business voting in their elections.
+ 0 · Reply · Translate · 3 days ago3 d · Edited: 3 days ago
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
But we all know it wont happen. Unless stopped cold, these mid terms will be a joke and the world will be laughing..😷
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@whowasthatmaskedman I am Canadian so it is a bit more likely here. At least on the left there is some discussion about it.
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Roundandroundwego · 61-69
@whowasthatmaskedman other countries have done it.
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Roundandroundwego · 61-69
Obviously you would go to that if you wanted peace or democracy!
Papers, please? Boooooooooom! Dead. ROFL!
+ 1 · Reply · Translate · 4 days ago4 d
 
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