Defanged Fascism?

@Graylight Sounds better than what we have now, honestly.

My politics don't exist in the States.

Some weird Nationalist Christian Social Democracy hybrid.

Meh.

I personally wouldn't use fascism as a base for an ideology.

But I do think one has to incoporate what works.

Many people NEED and WANT to be united and rallied under something. The nation, the people, the land, etc.

I don't think you can deny that.

@GeistInTheMachine I hate the politics of the US right now. And I absolutely agree we all need something to rally around, but fascism isn't it. Fascism and his nasty relatives are the sharks that come calling at the scent of blood. Fascism must feed itself to live, and it feeds on autonomy and freedom. It does this by creating false and non-existent enemies; by limiting freedom of the press, by limiting the exercise of religion, by placing power in the hands of the few and by leaning primarily on its military force.

That's not what Americans want. But to quote a very good movie: "In the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand."[/c]

"We've had presidents - who were beloved - who couldn't find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference."

@Graylight I'm at the point where I see that Liberal Democracy doesn't work.

@GeistInTheMachine almost every type of government that has been tried has failed at one point or another. I think the issue really comes down to ideologies. People lock into a sense of something working and then cling to it past the point where it doesn't work anymore.

I've used this analogy before, but if you are building a bookshelf, a saw makes a great tool. But the saw only works so far. Eventually you reach a point where the saw has done its job and you need to pick up a new tool. If you refuse to put the saw down because you love the saw, you are only going to damage the project. The saw had its time and did great, but now we need to move on.

Our ideologies can be viewed as these tools. Sometimes we reach the end of their lifespan. It doesn't make them bad ideologies, it just means they are not the best ones to move forward with.

Part of our problem is that some people don't want to move forward though. They would rather move backwards. So it's exceptionally hard to determine what the best new tools to use should be since we want different things.

@ViciDraco If the ideology can't deal with forseeable problems, then a new order is needed.

Liberalism has failed and is morally and economically bankrupt.

@GeistInTheMachine No ideology in the world can control for human behavior or the course of human events. We as a species simply aren't reliable in that way.

Anything - nearly - can be made to work. It depends on the the people and their willingness and motivation. The happiest places on earth (not quality of life, mind you) are released each year, and some of the poorest nations make that list because the people are simply happier than an American culture that's always chasing what it wants to fill a void constantly expanded by our own in-fighting. When a society is bent of self-destruction, there's not an ideology in the world that'll help. It's simply best to make way for the next best thing.

@Graylight Exactly. And the next best thing is not America's current system or some new neoliberal or neocon hell like the elite want us to slave for, for less.

Their ways don't work. They never truly have. If anything, I want a return to more old school, somewhat traditional Social Democratic values ala FDR, but with a sharp Nationalist edge.

I believe the "happiness' of the poorest countries is somewhat exagerrated or at least lacking in nuance to make white liberals feel good.

The happiest countries are often those that follow the Nordic model. A heady blend of capitalisim with some targeted social redistribution as needed.

Not perfect, no, but the States is degenerating. Look around you.

I see homeless on the daily. More every year it seems.

And I live in a nice area The gentrification and urban sprawl is severe.

Inflation and housing price is shit, too. i am leaving this state, but that won't fix the boiling issue that has and will lead to more carnage.

@GeistInTheMachine If people weren't just fine with the status quo and if those desiring all those changes didn't hold all the cards, you might have a cogent point. Welcome to the "span of time." You're going to start seeing the overall patterns of all kinds of things as the years grow shorter. When people are tired, they'll change. Until then, we're a nation of $12 sweatpants, McDonald's and Walmart willing to sacrifice our own freedoms just to keep others down. 'Murica.

We couldn't get people to wear a piece of cloth to save their lives. You're going to draw from them some kind of righteous political upheaval with a better future in mind? Eh, it's Netflix n' chill night.

@Graylight The Union will not hold, and it should not. All the neoliberals do is poison the well and give rise and fuel for neo-fascists and spineless wannabe communists. Just as the liberals allowed at Weimar before they naturally lost all control and ligitimacy.

One of those ruthless groups is slightly more dangerous and effective than the other. I'll let you guess.

@GeistInTheMachine This nation, an infant as it is in terms of human progress, is old. It's withstood much, much worse than this base-level squabbling. There still exist entire tiers of people who don't even entertain this drivel. We're still more obsessed with Tiger King and Dahmer than we are about our nation's future; no one's taking up arms for anything not discounted at Starbucks.

World wars, a civil war, the formation of a nation in a crucible, unjust wars, human exploitation and political corruption. The country is old hat at this stuff; it's just it's current tenants who fail to see the scope of history.

@Graylight I see the scope of history and the nation has always been a Bitterly divided mess, even when it has pretended not to be.

Myopic liberals always ignore their such faultlines at their own peril, which is why they are so useless politically.

@GeistInTheMachine Using words like "always" and "never" indicate a distinct lack of 20/20 vision.

Name for me the current Utopia you describe and we can start patterning ourselves after it immediately.

@Graylight Tone policing is a waste of time. I said what I said. Deal with the context please if you are choosing to engage with it. Or don't.

There is no such utopia. I never used that word. You just did, and that is a red herring, as it is not even the point I am makIng.

I made it clear what kind of system would prefer to see in the mean time. The only constant is change. It isn't as though man thinks up some ideology and then people are locked in.

It's not utopia or bust. How assenine you are making this sound.

The inability for most Americans to discuss politics in a constructive manner as citizenry in the classical sense shows the sorry state of the American people and their bleeding fractured nation.

@GeistInTheMachine You know, I remember being as omniscient as you. Those were the days when I didn't know yet what I didn't know. Enjoy your bliss while it lasts.