How come when people speak about the cuban missile crisis,
Nobody mentions that it was started by America placing their own missiles in Turkey that were aimed to fire at Moscow?
31-35, M
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beckyromero · 36-40, F
@Castenmas
It's also fact that the Soviets had invaded Finland, Poland, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia.
When there's a wild, vicious bear roaming around the neighborhood and that of your friends you're wise to have something with which to shoot it.
It's also fact that the Soviets had invaded Finland, Poland, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia.
When there's a wild, vicious bear roaming around the neighborhood and that of your friends you're wise to have something with which to shoot it.
Castenmas · M
@beckyromero Not Finland. And in terms of the Baltic states they were a part of the Third Reich prior to that.
None of the three superpowers can be trusted. They all do evil to serve themselves
None of the three superpowers can be trusted. They all do evil to serve themselves
Castenmas · M
@beckyromero So a short flurry of corrections.
The Soviets did not successfully invade Finland although Karelia was ceded to them in the peace treaty.
I’m not a supporter or an appreciator of the mess we know as Donald Trump.
The second Soviet war with Finland was legitimately taken, as they began the Second World War as an ally of the Third Reich.
The Soviets did not successfully invade Finland although Karelia was ceded to them in the peace treaty.
I’m not a supporter or an appreciator of the mess we know as Donald Trump.
The second Soviet war with Finland was legitimately taken, as they began the Second World War as an ally of the Third Reich.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@Castenmas [quote]The Soviets did not successfully invade Finland although Karelia was ceded to them in the peace treaty.[/quote]
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Sorry to break the news to you, but an invasion does [big][b]NOT[/b][/big] have to be "successful" to have been an invasion.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Sorry to break the news to you, but an invasion does [big][b]NOT[/b][/big] have to be "successful" to have been an invasion.
Castenmas · M
@beckyromero Are you okay ? Your tone and use of excessive bold would suggest you’re emotionally invested. Maybe have a nap.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@Castenmas
Oh, I'm fine! Very much so! I just love it when people don't realize what they are writing when their fingers hit the keyboard!
It's also great to start the day with laughter!
Oh, I'm fine! Very much so! I just love it when people don't realize what they are writing when their fingers hit the keyboard!
It's also great to start the day with laughter!
Castenmas · M
@beckyromero I’m relieved to hear it, welfare check completed.
So now yes back to the original point. No it isn’t forgotten that the Soviets only placed nuclear weapons in Cuba because the US first placed theirs in Turkey.
So now yes back to the original point. No it isn’t forgotten that the Soviets only placed nuclear weapons in Cuba because the US first placed theirs in Turkey.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@Castenmas [quote]No it isn’t forgotten that the Soviets only placed nuclear weapons in Cuba because the US first placed theirs in Turkey.[/quote]
Nor is it forgotten that the Soviets announced a successful test of an intercontinental ballistic missile in the summer of 1957. (Or their crackdown on Hungary in 1956.)
An arms race is just that... an arms race. Sometimes it's tit-for-tat. Sometimes it's for bluster. It's almost always for deterrance - regardless of which "side" you are on.
Nor is it forgotten that the Soviets announced a successful test of an intercontinental ballistic missile in the summer of 1957. (Or their crackdown on Hungary in 1956.)
An arms race is just that... an arms race. Sometimes it's tit-for-tat. Sometimes it's for bluster. It's almost always for deterrance - regardless of which "side" you are on.
Castenmas · M
@beckyromero In that I certainly agree, and I’m on no side of any of these self serving superpowers who hold the rest of the world hostage. I certainly agree about your summary of an arms race started by the use of atomic weapons on civilians in Japan. Twice.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@Castenmas
I think you are forgetting who [i]started[/i] the atomic arms race. It wasn't the United States. (We won it, but we hadn't started it. And Japan was in that race, too, by the way, along with developing and USING other weapons of mass destruction.)
I think you are forgetting who [i]started[/i] the atomic arms race. It wasn't the United States. (We won it, but we hadn't started it. And Japan was in that race, too, by the way, along with developing and USING other weapons of mass destruction.)
Castenmas · M
@beckyromero I haven’t forgotten. The USA didnt start the arms race. They were just the first to be callous enough to wipe out two cities. That “achievement” alone belongs to the USA. Not just the initial deaths. But the years to follow of deformed newborn babies and radiation related deaths.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@Castenmas
And, as previously mentioned, not even two atomic bombs convinced the Japanese war cabinet to surrender.
The Japanese started the war (and I'm not talking about Pearl Harbor as the "start" of the war.)
They are the blame to perhaps some 20 million civilian deaths in China and southeast Asia.
They tortuted, mutilated and killed civilians and prisoners of war alike.
They raped millions of women.
They used biological weapons on civilian populations.
And you want to talk about callousness?
And, as previously mentioned, not even two atomic bombs convinced the Japanese war cabinet to surrender.
The Japanese started the war (and I'm not talking about Pearl Harbor as the "start" of the war.)
They are the blame to perhaps some 20 million civilian deaths in China and southeast Asia.
They tortuted, mutilated and killed civilians and prisoners of war alike.
They raped millions of women.
They used biological weapons on civilian populations.
And you want to talk about callousness?
Castenmas · M
@beckyromero So monkey see monkey do?
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@Castenmas
Did Japan give an alternative to those that they raped, imprisioned, enslaved and slaughtered?
Did Japan give an alternative to those that they raped, imprisioned, enslaved and slaughtered?
Castenmas · M
@beckyromero Yes. It was a conventional war that did not require civilians to be killed indescrimately. Japan had lost it’s overseas possessions by this phase of the war and was trapped between the Soviets and the US/Commonwealth forces. Imperial Japan could have been defeated by the same tactics that had pushed them back all the way from Papau New Guinea. But because Americans see themselves as more valuable humans than any other people on earth the conscious decision was made to drop atom bombs on cities until the Japanese surrendered to preserve human life. Disgraceful really.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@Castenmas [quote]Yes.[/quote]
You answered "Yes."
Really? So what alternatives did Japan give to those millions that they raped, imprisioned, enslaved and slaughtered?
You answered "Yes."
Really? So what alternatives did Japan give to those millions that they raped, imprisioned, enslaved and slaughtered?
JSul3 · 70-79
@Castenmas The fire bombings did severe damage to Japan before the decision to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
The Japanese (their leaders anyway, not necessarily every civilian) were prepared to die for their cause. When you face an enemy willing to be totally wiped out/killed (same mindset in Viet Nam) rather than surrender, you face a dilemma.
There is evidence that suggests that the decision to hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki, was to #1, see if the new bomb would work, and to what capability, and #2, show the Russians that the US possessed 'the' weapon of mass destruction, and had now 'won' the nuclear arms race.
As noted: As the city disappeared under a mushroom cloud, Captain Robert Lewis – co-pilot of the Enola Gay, the bomber that dropped the weapon – wrote in his log “My God, what have we done?”
IMO, had the Allied forces lost WW2. the US would have been charged with war crimes. The Allies won, and only a select few of Nazis, and a number of Japanese (excluding Emperor Toho) were held accountable.
From WW2 Museum web site (in part. suggest reading the doc in its entirety that addresses the Nuremberg trials and the differences with those held at Tokyo.,,a very interesting read).
By the trial’s end, 12 Nazi leaders were sentenced to death, three were sentenced to life imprisonment, and four were sentenced to prison for a period of 10-20 years, with three being acquitted. The executions occurred on October 16, 1946, although the highest ranking Nazi official tried, Hermann Goering, committed suicide in his cell hours before the scheduled time of his execution.
The United States initiated the arrests of 28 Japanese leaders and led the subsequent trials from May 3, 1946, to November 12, 1948. Arrested Japanese leaders faced charges of war crimes, crimes committed against prisoners of war, and crimes against humanity.
Of the 28 leading officials put on trial before the IMTFE, 25 were found guilty; two had died during the trials, and another suffered a mental breakdown that required hospitalization. While 18 were sentenced to imprisonment, seven were found guilty of inciting atrocities on a massive scale and were executed by hanging. Among those executed was the General of the Imperial Japanese Army Hideki Tojo, who bore the brunt of responsibility to protect Hirohito and who ultimately accepted responsibility for the war during the trial. Prosecutions of additional Japanese officials continued during and after the Tokyo Trial, with more than 2,200 trials held in 51 different locations against roughly 5,600 suspected war criminals.
The Japanese (their leaders anyway, not necessarily every civilian) were prepared to die for their cause. When you face an enemy willing to be totally wiped out/killed (same mindset in Viet Nam) rather than surrender, you face a dilemma.
There is evidence that suggests that the decision to hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki, was to #1, see if the new bomb would work, and to what capability, and #2, show the Russians that the US possessed 'the' weapon of mass destruction, and had now 'won' the nuclear arms race.
As noted: As the city disappeared under a mushroom cloud, Captain Robert Lewis – co-pilot of the Enola Gay, the bomber that dropped the weapon – wrote in his log “My God, what have we done?”
IMO, had the Allied forces lost WW2. the US would have been charged with war crimes. The Allies won, and only a select few of Nazis, and a number of Japanese (excluding Emperor Toho) were held accountable.
From WW2 Museum web site (in part. suggest reading the doc in its entirety that addresses the Nuremberg trials and the differences with those held at Tokyo.,,a very interesting read).
By the trial’s end, 12 Nazi leaders were sentenced to death, three were sentenced to life imprisonment, and four were sentenced to prison for a period of 10-20 years, with three being acquitted. The executions occurred on October 16, 1946, although the highest ranking Nazi official tried, Hermann Goering, committed suicide in his cell hours before the scheduled time of his execution.
The United States initiated the arrests of 28 Japanese leaders and led the subsequent trials from May 3, 1946, to November 12, 1948. Arrested Japanese leaders faced charges of war crimes, crimes committed against prisoners of war, and crimes against humanity.
Of the 28 leading officials put on trial before the IMTFE, 25 were found guilty; two had died during the trials, and another suffered a mental breakdown that required hospitalization. While 18 were sentenced to imprisonment, seven were found guilty of inciting atrocities on a massive scale and were executed by hanging. Among those executed was the General of the Imperial Japanese Army Hideki Tojo, who bore the brunt of responsibility to protect Hirohito and who ultimately accepted responsibility for the war during the trial. Prosecutions of additional Japanese officials continued during and after the Tokyo Trial, with more than 2,200 trials held in 51 different locations against roughly 5,600 suspected war criminals.
Gloomy · F
@beckyromero by that logic Vietnam should have nuked US cities because of the war crimes americans committed
JSul3 · 70-79
@Gloomy To the winner goes the spoils. We may both consider these bombings as war crimes, but Nazis were bombing civilians in Europe and the Japanese horrific acts are also well documented. There were 'war crimes' on all sides.
The US helped in the rebuilding of Japan and we have become great friends.
BTW: The 1954 Japanese film Gojira (Godzilla) was made as a warning about further nuclear testing. A small Japanese fishing boat was exposed to fallout from a nearby test by the US, and was a factor in the story. It is worth a watch and reading the background gives a look from their perspective.
The US helped in the rebuilding of Japan and we have become great friends.
BTW: The 1954 Japanese film Gojira (Godzilla) was made as a warning about further nuclear testing. A small Japanese fishing boat was exposed to fallout from a nearby test by the US, and was a factor in the story. It is worth a watch and reading the background gives a look from their perspective.