Most of you know that I am generally a right-of-center person with regard to the American political spectrum. Not very far right-of-center, but to the right none-the-less. To those who know American politics, I guess many would say I fit with the Massachusetts Republicans (not that I have ever joined any party -- I have not).
Despite that, I have always cast my votes for the person, not any single policy. And when Bernie Sanders, the only Socialist in American politics on the national stage, was running for President I supported him. So many people here and in real life looked at me like I was crazy. How could an admitted conservative support a socialist? Well, it was about the person, not about any of the MANY policy positions upon which he and I disagree.
And this is why I've always liked him:
[media=https://youtu.be/HlIvH6ozvv4]
Most of you know that I am pursuing some kind of government-related, diplomacy-adjacent career. If you've read my About Me here then you know I want to change the world. Whether we are talking about Ukraine or Gaza or Syria or the DRC or any of a dozen other places around the world including right here in the USA, people are dying simply for the ideas in their heads. This is just the latest example.
I have had a poster or a plaque with Chief Tecumseh's poem over my desk since I was a 19 year old sophomore in undergrad eleven years ago. This poem was influential in my own philosophical development. It is about respect.
Chief Tecumseh's Poem
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none.
When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home."
~ Chief Tecumseh
I think our one and only socialist Senator and this indigenous American Warrior Chief would've been good friends.
In the words of Julie Chen-Moonves, "Love one another!" Please.
I wasn't at all surprised that you supported Bernie Sanders despite disagreeing with him on many things. He's a good man and among the most honest politicians of our time.
You and I used to discuss politics regularly and I remember you telling me that the character of a politician mattered much more to you than their political positions. At the time, I weighed both of these things equally, but I've come around to your perspective on this. I still care very much about the policy positions of public office holders, but if they're men or women of poor character, I don't really care where they stand on the issues and I won't support them.
I agree with everything Bernie said in the clip you shared. Thank you for sharing it.
I've yet to see a single issue in which Sanders hasn't been the voice of reason.. It's truly a pity he didn't get the chance to be president.
In this very moment especially, I can't think of a more unifying (or reverse it: less polarising) person at the helm. Maybe at most John McCain, if he was still alive.
* Only note: he isn't technically a socialist, he's more of a social democrat (as his platform is about regulating/supplementing capitalism, not displacing it). Even if he himself seems to confuse the two lol
@sarabee1995 Thank you, but bear in mind, those descriptions of the various communism forms are very approximate and extremely reductive, just tried to make them as elementary as possible.
He is a democratic socialist, which, I believe is not the same as what the MAGA people fight over. He is a capitalist, but with empathy, and a philosophy that government should be of and for the people, a phrase once stated by a republican.
@samueltyler2 Alright, alright ... you made me look him up! 🤣
According to Google AI:
Although Bernie Sanders calls himself a "democratic socialist" ... his policies and political positions are more closely aligned with social democracy. This distinction is significant in understanding his political ideology.
- He argues that this position is rooted in creating an economy that works for all people, not just the wealthy. - He ties his vision to the legacy of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal, advocating for economic rights such as healthcare, housing, and a living wage as fundamental human rights.
Policy alignment with social democracy:
Despite his self-description, Sanders's policy platform largely fits within the framework of social democracy, which is characterized by a strong welfare state, worker protections, and public services within a capitalist economy.
His policy proposals typically do not call for the abolition of capitalism or the nationalization of the means of production, which are core tenets of traditional democratic socialism.
@sarabee1995 okay, I like that. As I said, he has never really called himself a socialist. BTW, if I had not told you, i went to high school with him, and he spent one year as a fellow freshman in college, although we weren't in the same social groups.
Bernie Sandars is my favourite politician and I am left wing (though I only get my politics from my family because I don't watch the news and only watch kids cartoons) but I like Romney even though he is right wing because he created an affordable healthcare insurance which I'm told became the blueprint for obamacare! 😇😇😇 So just like you like Bernie despite being right wing I like Romney despite being left wing! 😁😁😁
@LordShadowfire I'm an adult who watches cartoons all the time I do not like adult shows and even PG-13 is too mature for me and I do not watch the news! 😇😇😇 You are NEVER too old for cartoons in my opinion but my autism makes me like a child and people who know me personally will tell you I am mentally a ten year old in an adults body but that doesn't mean your ever too old for cartoons! 😌😌😌 Please remember your super awesome! 😘😘😘
I voted for Sanders in all primaries he ran in, if I recall. I also voted for Nader in the general. Otherwise I chose the Democrat.
Anybody but a Republican.
I am a liberal atheist, who thinks we should let in immigrants and control guns. But I think murderers should be executed (perhaps my one "conservative" stance).
As for Mr. Kirk, I had never heard of him before, so did not know what he said. I suspect I would not like most of it. I don't always agree with Sanders, either. Nobody should be harmed for what they say, unless it causes harm itself, like inciting violence or peddling lies. We should be responsible.
I am in no way politically aligned with Bernie Sanders. But I respect him and his conviction to his beliefs. And I agree wholeheartedly with what he said in this clip. There is no place in humanity for the violence presented on a daily basis.
@sarabee1995 even though I lean right as a conservative republican, the divide is waaaaay too much. I just don't understand the way most democrat liberls think...I was not raised thinking that way. But when I was growing up, there was very little divide..and more compromise. How the hell did it get this bad !
@Midlifemale There was still a divide, but it was dealt with differently. I've read a lot about the relationship between Ronald Reagan (conservative Republican president through the 80's) and Tip O'Neil (liberal/leftist Democrat Speaker of the House during Reagan's presidency). Politically, they were arch rivals. But they were still able to have respectful conversations and reach compromises to move things forward. We need to return to a place where we can speak to each other.
@RodneyTrotterBeatTheSWBan Is your intent in calling me "young lady" intended to dismiss or diminish my opinions? Personal, ad hominum attacks are the refuge of a weak mind.
Very good words to strive for! Tecumseh and Carzy Hourse and many other wise men could see the white mans probleems and knew that they created most of them. Will we ever lean? No, we probably never will. We are doomed to distroy all things by our unwillingness to learn.
@sarabee1995 It's a pretend general election with a poll for a made up town I invented on Similar Worlds! 😝😝😝 My posts are private for those I follow only and it is just a imaginary town located on the sea between France and England! 😁😁😁 You don't have to but you can vote if you want! 😘😘😘 I made two pretend political parties with their own policies! 😂😂😂 The country has a talking tree, an economy and is called Barefoot Paradise Town because the island is in the shape of a foot-sole! 👣👣👣
Democrat , republican independent anyone from any party who is sincere honest has the balls to say the right thing needs support ..else you encourage the rouges
@LordShadowfire I'd like to see the list (in the form of links to YouTube videos of him saying the things). I didn't follow him with any regularity, but I did see many of his videos and I always saw him treating the people at the mic with respect.
@sarabee1995 I'm told a lot of this stuff is taken way out of context, but I don't see how the context would make it much better. I could be wrong, though. Here's a highlight video to get you started. [media=https://youtu.be/LaMUIs0-Hek] I'll see what else I can find.
@LordShadowfire Okay ... Not quite the list of quotes you said you had, but I'll take it.
A lot of this video is simply hearsay. And Charlie's detractors ALWAYS seem to resort to "he said this" and "he said that". But the funny thing is that I never heard him say most of what he is claimed to have said. That's why I asked for links to him saying what everyone is complaining about. You're not the first person I've asked to show me Charlie saying the horrible things.
But some of the video was screen shots of posts or at least something rising above simple hearsay. So lets look at some of them:
Visas for people from India Charlie said we don't need any more immigrants from India. I would add that we don't need more from several different cultures. Our immigration system should be structured to issue visas from varied cultures from all over the world, not just a few. When you have MANY immigrants from any one culture into another you create animosity. That is not a racist statement.
Foreign funding of social media accounts by India Yes, this happens. He threw a spotlight on it and rightly pointed out that it is illegal (unless disclosed). I'm not sure I understand how this is controversial.
Blocking the outsourcing of work to India Lol, I'm pretty sure that it is not just Charlie, nor just Republicans and/or conservatives who have bemoaned the widespread outsourcing of call center jobs to India. Doing so does not make one a racist.
Gaza and Israel Okay, let me preface my comments here by saying I do NOT support Israel's tactics in Gaza. But, as with Russia & Ukraine, the end of the war is simple. Israel has not wavered from two simple commands in the aftermath of October 7: 1) Hamas can no longer govern in Gaza, and 2) all hostages (dead and alive) must be returned. The war can end tomorrow. He is essentially saying that every single day the war continues is on Hamas. That is not a racist statement.
Some gun deaths every year is the "cost" to our freedoms I can certainly see how and why this is inflamatory. But is it so wrong or evil? If 100% of all handguns and long arms were made illegal tomorrow, do you really think we would have no gun deaths? And our "rights" came at great cost paid generation after generation by those who defend them. No other nation in the world defines "rights" the way we do and holding up that definition as something worthy of defense does not make one in some way evil.
Ferility collapse in the West Lol, yup, I'm one of the many young women Charlie is talking about here. I don't plan on having children. His opinions on the subject directly target me. But on this issue, I see him and I as having different opinions. How is that evil?
Abortion Yup, he's Pro-Life. So are millions of Americans. Is this why he is evil?
Transgender people He thinks they are mentally ill. So did psychiatrists until some years ago. I think he is behind on current thinking here. Definitely not in alignment with my thinking on the subject, but I haven't ever heard him advocating that anyone commit violence against Trans people (that's what I hear him being accused of).
Black fathers ... Inner city schools ... black on black crime If anyone thinks we do not have a problem in America with any of these three issues, I'm happy to have the conversation.
Affirmative Action This is an issue of particular interest to me. I attended a very academically challenging undergrad university. One that almost anyone here will have heard something about. And when I went there, there was an active affirmative action program.
Screen shot from your video link:
So Charlie says that affirmative action students take spaces away from "more deserving" people. Well, if admission was based purely on academics (which it is not), then Charlie's statement would be demonstrably true. But, in fact, universities like mine, do not admit students based purely on academics. These schools believe there is value in exposing undergrads to a student population of diverse backgrounds. Personally, my first friends who spoke English as a second language were made at university. My first true friends who were not from American suburbia were made there. And those people added so much to my education as a young person. So on this topic, he and I disagree. But his belief that universities should admit on academic qualifications only doesn't make him evil.
I guess I'm back to where I started in this thread. Please show me what he has said that is so evil? He is a conservative and he espoused conservative values. That does not make him evil. It makes him different from you, and to a lesser degree, different from me. We should be able to discuss these things as he was always open to doing.
@TexChik I explained what I like about him. I like that he (and Charlie) both spoke to their political opponents and adversaries with respect.
Charlie is being accused of being hateful and of being a racist. Right? And yet, I've never heard a single racist or hateful word come out of his mouth. But people who do not like his politics and his philosophies are interpreting those things as racists, etc, and then applying that label to Charlie. Not fair and not right.
And this is exactly what you are doing to Bernie. If you and he sat down for a conversation, he would treat you with respect, ask questions about your beliefs, answer questions about his, and try to find some point of common ground. And Charlie did the same with college students. Their beliefs did not overlap in many areas except this: They both believed in respecting people and in freedom and democracy. For that, I celebrate both as good men.
Lastly, for the record, Bernie owns two homes: 1) A four-bedroom family home in Burlington purchased for $405,000 (worth ~$700k today) and 2) A waterfront cabin on Lake Champlain bought for $575,000. The second home was purchsed with proceeds from Bernie's book and from the sale of his wife's inherited family home. Total net worth about $3M. There are many in politics, both Republicans and Democrats, who have gamed the system for personal gain. Bernie is not among them and never has been.
