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A serious question about what Thomas Jefferson might think

There is a lot of discussion about what the U.S.'s "Founding Fathers" (no women need apply) would think about the "Trump Revolution 2", largely fueled by the mythological revisionist history of our founding from both ends of the ideological spectrum.

I would like to narrow the discussion--and hopefully a rational discussion--to what Thomas Jefferson would think, considering two of his more famous quotes:

1. Perhaps we need a Revolution every decade of so. Did he envision a violent one like the country had just gone through, a total re-examination of everything the government does much like zero-based budgeting and innovative audits in the private sector, or a turbulent political upheaval as we are likely to see under Trump?

2. There were no political parties (unless you consider the Federalist movement and writings of Hamilton and Madison a party) when the Constitution was written, and the VP was whomever got the second highest amount of Electoral Votes. (The idea of President & VP being of the same party and running on the same ticket didn't come into being until the 12th Amendment in 1803). When Jefferson founded the first political party--the Democratic Republicans--to oppose the Federalist efforts to build a strong central government, he declared that political parties were a necessary evil. Given how the two major political parties essentially have gamed the election processes to keep smaller parties from gaining any traction, was he prescient about what he was unleashing?
beckyromero · 36-40, F
I think Jefferson would be more shocked to learn about nuclear weapons and trips to the moon than he would be about an unscrupulous politician.
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@beckyromero True enough. Both of the comments I referenced showed his concerns/fears about how politicians would twist and abuse the government they were constructing, or had constructed. I just wondered if it is playing out in the manner he foresaw.
beckyromero · 36-40, F
@dancingtongue

Crédit Mobilier, Teapot Dome, Watergate, Iran-Contra...

It's just now at a different level of corruption.
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@beckyromero Potentially its like the financial corruption of the first two, the Watergate "enemies list", and the Iran-Contra circumvention of Congress all rolled into one.
JSul3 · 70-79
"Life is all right in America, if you're all white in America." (West Side Story).

"America was built by white men, for white men." (Pat Buchanon)
@JSul3 west side story was released in 1961..

Come along to the future
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout Classic stage musical far before that.
JSul3 · 70-79
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout Still stand by the statement.
Patriot96 · 56-60, C
Trump has begun the revolution
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@Patriot96 how do you see Trump's revolution playing out? Is it just economics or will it be violent?
Patriot96 · 56-60, C
@JollyRoger economic, cultural and purge of some of wasteful govt spending
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@Patriot96 Thanks! I've criticized you before for not giving reasons for your comments. I appreciate this reply - and it also answers many of the unasked questions I had.
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
When tyranny is present,rebellion becomes duty.
@MrBrownstone Great! Now all you gotta do is define "tyranny"😂🤣
The road to hell is paved with good intentions..

As soon as something that is meant to be good is implemented . The machine immediately sets about to corrupt it…
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout
The machine immediately sets about to corrupt it
It is not all overt effort to corrupt. Far more of it is the nature of bureaucracies to protect their turfs, grow, and ossify. The idea of a DOGE is a good one imho, if done thoughtfully and without ideologically predetermined targets. The idea of putting a man notorious for reorganizing by cutting 25% and watching the others fight it out, and naming it after the Cryptocurrency you are most involved with, is not my idea of "thoughtfully".
RedBaron · M
How can you bring up Jefferson without mentioning his prolific writings?

He wrote the Declaration of Independence as well as more than 20,000 letters.

More importantly, some of his texts that were seminal to the birth and independence of the US were set to music as a choral work, [i]Testament of Freedom[/i]:

A Summary View of the Rights of British America (1774)

Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of Taking up Arms (1775)

Letter to John Adams (1821)

“The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy but cannot disjoin them.”
[media=https://youtu.be/ruojMCl_DKg]
dancingtongue · 80-89, M
@RedBaron You forgot the original Right to Religious Freedom written for the Commonwealth of Virginia. Ironically, under it you needed a license to preach and in practice only Anglicans and Lutherans were able to obtain licenses. Free Baptist Messengers (such as one of my ancestors) were particularly discriminated against because they were abolitionists, which led to his moving first to Pennsylvania and then on into the new Ohio territory. Others who stayed and tried to preach were not so fortunate, being arrested for preaching without a license, and in some cases being pulled from the jails and lynched.

I did not intend to slight Jefferson in anyway. He was a powerful writer and contributor to the Revolution, to the Constitution, and as the third President. I was just focusing on a couple of his oft forgotten statements regarding the pragmatics of how sausage is made versus the lofty language of how we wish it were made.
DonaldTrumpet · 70-79, M
@DonaldTrumpet When fascism comes

JollyRoger · 70-79, M
@DonaldTrumpet Now, please clarify the intention of your post.
nobodyishome · 31-35, F
To put a Y in HappYness. Well, he said, it was a pursuit. so. Absolutely, not for me. WE are so happy together.

 
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