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AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
If you’re advocating for late term abortions based on un survivable conditions at 6-8 months you should know what those conditions are .
If you’re not advocating for that you have no reason to know the conditions .
If you’re not advocating for that you have no reason to know the conditions .
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ElwoodBlues · M
@Reason10 says
Seriously, dude, how will you know??
And how do you know if a fetus is alive?
Allow Baby Molly to teach you the difference between an embryo and a living person.
A pregnant mother whose life is threatened by an impending birth has the right to defend herself from that birth.
And how do you know if a pregnant woman is threatened?Seriously, dude, how will you know??
And how do you know if a fetus is alive?
Allow Baby Molly to teach you the difference between an embryo and a living person.
@Pikachu Except it's NOT her own body, women are hosting an entirely SEPARATE entity, a soon to be child, the "medical necessity" argument is a fallacy. Here are the facts from an ACTUAL Medical Doctor.
https://sheilamfureymd.substack.com/p/the-medical-necessity-of-abortion
@AthrillatheHunt @RepublicanDad
https://sheilamfureymd.substack.com/p/the-medical-necessity-of-abortion
@AthrillatheHunt @RepublicanDad
@NativePortlander1970
lol you're new to this, yes?
Let's say the fetus has a right over its body the same as you or i.
Neither you nor i have the right over another person's body whether we need it or not.
If i need your kidney to live, i do not have a right to take it against your will.
That's bodily autonomy, bud.
Here's an example of a medically necessary abortion. Tell me what you think:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/25/health/abortion-late-in-pregnancy-eprise/index.html
lol you're new to this, yes?
Let's say the fetus has a right over its body the same as you or i.
Neither you nor i have the right over another person's body whether we need it or not.
If i need your kidney to live, i do not have a right to take it against your will.
That's bodily autonomy, bud.
Here's an example of a medically necessary abortion. Tell me what you think:
Ending her pregnancy saved her life
The swelling was the first sign that something was wrong. It showed up in her hands and feet. She struggled to squeeze into shoes.
Susan flipped open her “What to Expect When You’re Expecting” book and turned to the section that outlined when to call a doctor. Her kind of swelling and sudden weight gain – she’d put on 11 pounds in one week – made the list.
He wasn’t an ob-gyn, so she called hers.
“Have your husband take your blood pressure, just when he’s able to,” the doctor advised.
On their way to dinner in Berkeley, California, that evening, he suggested that they swing by his office first.
Her blood pressure “was off the charts,” Susan remembers 30 years later. Her husband dialed the obstetrician, who asked whether he had any urine testing strips handy. He did, and they showed that Susan’s protein levels were dangerously high, indicating a problem with her kidneys.
“Get over to the hospital right away,” the obstetrician ordered.
Susan at first balked. She felt fine, just swollen. Plus, she was hungry.
“Can’t we go to dinner first?” she asked before being rushed out the door.
She stayed in denial for as long as she could. Doctors were alarmed about her blood pressure, but she wasn’t. They said her kidneys were shutting down, but that didn’t register. Instead, she focused on the ultrasound they took, which revealed the baby’s gender.
She looked with excitement at her husband.
“Oh, my goodness, we’re going to have a boy!” she said. “Aren’t you happy?”
His face was grim, she remembered. “He knew that this was not looking good at all.”
She was at 24 weeks and had severe preeclampsia. Doctors said she was on the verge of having a stroke.
“It’s like you’re being poisoned by pregnancy,” she said, explaining her condition, “And the only way to cure it is to not be pregnant.”
The fetus was behind in its development and not where it should be at 24 weeks.
It “needs at least two weeks to be even minimally viable, and you just don’t have two weeks,” the doctors told her. “You don’t have two days.”
Still, she tried to negotiate a deal. She was a physical therapist. She could rehab herself after a stroke, she told them. She could rehab their baby. She wanted to deliver it, if not vaginally, then by C-section. They said her body could not withstand either.
They promised her the fetus would feel no pain before stopping its heartbeat. Then they put Susan under to perform the dilation and evacuation procedure, in which the cervix is dilated and the contents of the uterus extracted.
Her abortion was a necessity and felt like “such a no-choice choice,” said Susan, 59, who later had two daughters.
It wasn’t what she wanted. It was what she needed to live.
The swelling was the first sign that something was wrong. It showed up in her hands and feet. She struggled to squeeze into shoes.
Susan flipped open her “What to Expect When You’re Expecting” book and turned to the section that outlined when to call a doctor. Her kind of swelling and sudden weight gain – she’d put on 11 pounds in one week – made the list.
He wasn’t an ob-gyn, so she called hers.
“Have your husband take your blood pressure, just when he’s able to,” the doctor advised.
On their way to dinner in Berkeley, California, that evening, he suggested that they swing by his office first.
Her blood pressure “was off the charts,” Susan remembers 30 years later. Her husband dialed the obstetrician, who asked whether he had any urine testing strips handy. He did, and they showed that Susan’s protein levels were dangerously high, indicating a problem with her kidneys.
“Get over to the hospital right away,” the obstetrician ordered.
Susan at first balked. She felt fine, just swollen. Plus, she was hungry.
“Can’t we go to dinner first?” she asked before being rushed out the door.
She stayed in denial for as long as she could. Doctors were alarmed about her blood pressure, but she wasn’t. They said her kidneys were shutting down, but that didn’t register. Instead, she focused on the ultrasound they took, which revealed the baby’s gender.
She looked with excitement at her husband.
“Oh, my goodness, we’re going to have a boy!” she said. “Aren’t you happy?”
His face was grim, she remembered. “He knew that this was not looking good at all.”
She was at 24 weeks and had severe preeclampsia. Doctors said she was on the verge of having a stroke.
“It’s like you’re being poisoned by pregnancy,” she said, explaining her condition, “And the only way to cure it is to not be pregnant.”
The fetus was behind in its development and not where it should be at 24 weeks.
It “needs at least two weeks to be even minimally viable, and you just don’t have two weeks,” the doctors told her. “You don’t have two days.”
Still, she tried to negotiate a deal. She was a physical therapist. She could rehab herself after a stroke, she told them. She could rehab their baby. She wanted to deliver it, if not vaginally, then by C-section. They said her body could not withstand either.
They promised her the fetus would feel no pain before stopping its heartbeat. Then they put Susan under to perform the dilation and evacuation procedure, in which the cervix is dilated and the contents of the uterus extracted.
Her abortion was a necessity and felt like “such a no-choice choice,” said Susan, 59, who later had two daughters.
It wasn’t what she wanted. It was what she needed to live.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/25/health/abortion-late-in-pregnancy-eprise/index.html
ElwoodBlues · M
The Roe v Wade rule was that abortions are illegal after the point where the fetus can survive outside the womb (assuming all best NICU care etc). That's a moving target, and these days for a healthy fetus it's around 26-27 weeks? Anyway, as you say, late term abortions are for non-survivable (such as ectopic) or dead fetuses that threaten the life of the mother.
Interesting info on who is getting abortions when. 92% occur in the first trimester; they are very rare beyond the 2nd trimester.
Interesting info on who is getting abortions when. 92% occur in the first trimester; they are very rare beyond the 2nd trimester.
missyann · 56-60
With medical technology today, there is no medical reason for a late term abortion . Not one unborn life has to be intentionally and deliberately killed to save her mothers life. These instances are so rare today that they are never.
Conditions that threaten a mother’s lie usually occur after 21 weeks when the baby can survive and a C-section or an early induction can be done to try to save both lives even in cases when doctors know that the baby has a little chance of survival,. Even in the instances with fetal abnormalities, and the baby has a life limiting condition the mother Has. to give birth anyway why not allow that child to be born and treated with dignity and respect no matter how long it has to live. There is palliative hospice that ensures that the baby does not suffer.. even if the mother doesn’t want to see or hold that baby, it will die in the arms of love with a palliative nurse
How did people think that a baby came to survive at 21 weeks? A doctor gave all they had to save That babies life
Conditions that threaten a mother’s lie usually occur after 21 weeks when the baby can survive and a C-section or an early induction can be done to try to save both lives even in cases when doctors know that the baby has a little chance of survival,. Even in the instances with fetal abnormalities, and the baby has a life limiting condition the mother Has. to give birth anyway why not allow that child to be born and treated with dignity and respect no matter how long it has to live. There is palliative hospice that ensures that the baby does not suffer.. even if the mother doesn’t want to see or hold that baby, it will die in the arms of love with a palliative nurse
How did people think that a baby came to survive at 21 weeks? A doctor gave all they had to save That babies life
missyann · 56-60
@Pikachu You aren’t going to let me
“ squirm “ out. I’m not…o
I shouldn’t have had to say a medically necessary, abortion due to circumstances beyond her control, but I suppose I should have
I have a question you said that the doctor told her that she could not withstand a vaginal delivery or a C-section. How did the baby come out? Because i’m certain it didn’t disintegrate. Even in cases when the baby cannot survive, a preterm delivery can be done. After 24 weeks when most so-called life-threatening conditions occur and abortion takes 2 to 3 days to complete due to the dilation process. So why did this baby have to be intentionally and deliberately killed just save her life
Pro life advocates agree that medically necessary abortions mean that it is beyond a mother and her doctors control, which is why there are no such thing as medically necessary abortions. Even in certain sudden life-threatening emergencies emergency management of the condition a lot of times is done to prevent the death of the mother and the baby.
And the oops could’ of would of should of doesn’t fly she didn’t miscarry an early pregnancy.. a human life with a heart head, arms, legs, eyes ears ect was intentionally, and deliberately killed
Do you know how the baby was removed? If the doctor said it would feel no pain that means he killed it before he delivered it.
This is just a bizarre example with a lot of incomplete parts to the story?
“ squirm “ out. I’m not…o
I shouldn’t have had to say a medically necessary, abortion due to circumstances beyond her control, but I suppose I should have
I have a question you said that the doctor told her that she could not withstand a vaginal delivery or a C-section. How did the baby come out? Because i’m certain it didn’t disintegrate. Even in cases when the baby cannot survive, a preterm delivery can be done. After 24 weeks when most so-called life-threatening conditions occur and abortion takes 2 to 3 days to complete due to the dilation process. So why did this baby have to be intentionally and deliberately killed just save her life
Pro life advocates agree that medically necessary abortions mean that it is beyond a mother and her doctors control, which is why there are no such thing as medically necessary abortions. Even in certain sudden life-threatening emergencies emergency management of the condition a lot of times is done to prevent the death of the mother and the baby.
And the oops could’ of would of should of doesn’t fly she didn’t miscarry an early pregnancy.. a human life with a heart head, arms, legs, eyes ears ect was intentionally, and deliberately killed
Do you know how the baby was removed? If the doctor said it would feel no pain that means he killed it before he delivered it.
This is just a bizarre example with a lot of incomplete parts to the story?
@missyann
...so that her life would be saved.
You seem to think that demanding exact medical details somehow reinforces your position.
It does not. It merely underlines the rigidity of your thinking.
And then you characterize saving the woman's life as an insufficient reason....
You accept no counter example and you do not consider the woman's life worth saving.
There is no avenue for productive conversation here.
just save her life
...so that her life would be saved.
You seem to think that demanding exact medical details somehow reinforces your position.
It does not. It merely underlines the rigidity of your thinking.
And then you characterize saving the woman's life as an insufficient reason....
You accept no counter example and you do not consider the woman's life worth saving.
There is no avenue for productive conversation here.
Reason10 · 70-79, M
You might look for the thread I made on all the states with abortion restrictions. Only Kentucky has outlawed abortion completely.
The rest of them allow abortion for medical emergency.
Do your homework. Look up the statutes. We have this amazing thing called INDIVIDUAL STATES, who engage in Representative Democracy. Since Roe was declared unconstitutional (and it WAS unconstitutional) the DEMOCRATIC decision was left to the states.
Of course, the Federal government could EASILY create an abortion on demand law. It could sail through a DemoNazi controlled Congress (which we HAVE had from time to time) and get signed into law by a DemNazi president (which we HAVE from time to time.)
If you're wonder why the people of America haven't demanded their Congressman pass such a law, maybe most of America doesn't want abortion on demand.
Since you like to end with a question, let me ask you this:
If a woman suddenly discovered she was pregnant at the seventh or eighth month, what would be the problem with her having the child and putting it up for adoption? Or is a slut's stupidity an automatice DEATH PENALTY with no due process.
Ted Bundy got better due process.
The rest of them allow abortion for medical emergency.
Do your homework. Look up the statutes. We have this amazing thing called INDIVIDUAL STATES, who engage in Representative Democracy. Since Roe was declared unconstitutional (and it WAS unconstitutional) the DEMOCRATIC decision was left to the states.
Of course, the Federal government could EASILY create an abortion on demand law. It could sail through a DemoNazi controlled Congress (which we HAVE had from time to time) and get signed into law by a DemNazi president (which we HAVE from time to time.)
If you're wonder why the people of America haven't demanded their Congressman pass such a law, maybe most of America doesn't want abortion on demand.
Since you like to end with a question, let me ask you this:
If a woman suddenly discovered she was pregnant at the seventh or eighth month, what would be the problem with her having the child and putting it up for adoption? Or is a slut's stupidity an automatice DEATH PENALTY with no due process.
Ted Bundy got better due process.
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Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
I’d be fine with outlawing late term abortions of convenience (because they don’t happen) if the right to abortion was otherwise protected.
Late term abortions are just a huge strawman.
Late term abortions are just a huge strawman.
For sure.
It's not the pandemic of trivial abortion that conservatives would like to pretend it is.
It's not the pandemic of trivial abortion that conservatives would like to pretend it is.
ElwoodBlues · M
@Fukfacewillie Yeah, the Roe v Wade rule was that abortions are illegal after the point where the fetus can survive outside the womb. Abortions in months 7-9 are illegal according to that rule. And if the fetus is unservivable at that point and threatens the health of the mother, then by all means allow the mother to choose abortion.
@ElwoodBlues The fact that there are several males debating on this thread is exactly what’s wrong with this whole debate. It should be a personal choice and no one else’s business really.
RepublicanDad · 31-35, M
Any abortion is sick! Now there should always be the exceptions like Rape or health or the mother I agree. But to have a abortion just because a woman doesn’t want the baby that is sick and that is wrong.
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@RepublicanDad Correct. ABortion as birth control is the HOLOCAUST.
missyann · 56-60
@RepublicanDad Except the.instance of rape. What is the difference between a baby conceived in rape and one that is wanted ? Can anyone tell the difference.? Why.should the baby get the death penalty for something it had absolutely no control over ? When the one responsible doesn't.
emiliya · 22-25, F
How do you know why she is aborting her baby late term?
If she does not have to provide a reason, she can have an abortion at any time, and it could be because she doesn't want him or her. It is wrong for a woman to be in later stages of pregnancy and change her mind about having her baby, depriving her poor child of life.
If she does not have to provide a reason, she can have an abortion at any time, and it could be because she doesn't want him or her. It is wrong for a woman to be in later stages of pregnancy and change her mind about having her baby, depriving her poor child of life.
@emiliya
Source? Can yo give me a citation on that?
That a doctor can provide a late term abortion when there is no risk to the mother or the pregnancy is totally viable?
And once again, why do you think women are carrying a pregnancy almost to term and then just deciding to abort?
I won't say that, that is a non-zero number but at that stage, virtually every woman is intending to carry that pregnancy to term. It's not some sort of birth control, it's a goddamn tragedy to the mother.
Show a little respect and empathy for that.
, he can give the woman an abortion without it being medically necessary.
Source? Can yo give me a citation on that?
That a doctor can provide a late term abortion when there is no risk to the mother or the pregnancy is totally viable?
And once again, why do you think women are carrying a pregnancy almost to term and then just deciding to abort?
I won't say that, that is a non-zero number but at that stage, virtually every woman is intending to carry that pregnancy to term. It's not some sort of birth control, it's a goddamn tragedy to the mother.
Show a little respect and empathy for that.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
Can they detect unsurvivable defects before 6-8 months ? I know a lot of Down’s syndrome babies are aborted, but I don’t know when they can detect that .
@AthrillatheHunt
Yes they can but that doesn't mean they will for whatever reason.
The 6-8 months number is just to illustrate that life threatening circumstances can arise even very late in the pregnancy which justifies action.
Yes they can but that doesn't mean they will for whatever reason.
The 6-8 months number is just to illustrate that life threatening circumstances can arise even very late in the pregnancy which justifies action.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
@Pikachu all you needed to say is yes they can. Which unsurvivable defects don’t manifest until 6-8 months ?
@AthrillatheHunt
ok...sorry for giving a slightly longer answer lol
I don't know which defects can manifest or at what time or which complications can threaten the mother's life. I'm not a doctor.
ok...sorry for giving a slightly longer answer lol
I don't know which defects can manifest or at what time or which complications can threaten the mother's life. I'm not a doctor.
Askeladd · 31-35, M
Do you think a woman is carrying her pregnancy to 6 or 8 months and saying " Actually no, i don't want this baby, i'll have an abortion" ?
Yes Late term abortions occur in cases where either there are unsurvivable defects to the developing child or life threatening complications for the mother.
It’s okay under these circumstances.@Askeladd
I wouldn't be so arrogant as to say that, that NEVER happens, but under the already tiny fraction of pregnancies that are aborted after 20 weeks, do you think it is COMMON that the woman has just decided they'd rather not have the baby after all?
Do you think it is common that a woman undergoes all the health risks, permanent changes to her body, financial preparation, psychological turmoil and stress right up to where she is almost ready to give birth.....and then says " Nahh, i'd rather not, actually" ?
I wouldn't be so arrogant as to say that, that NEVER happens, but under the already tiny fraction of pregnancies that are aborted after 20 weeks, do you think it is COMMON that the woman has just decided they'd rather not have the baby after all?
Do you think it is common that a woman undergoes all the health risks, permanent changes to her body, financial preparation, psychological turmoil and stress right up to where she is almost ready to give birth.....and then says " Nahh, i'd rather not, actually" ?
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@Pikachu i wish askdad could post an example of where it did happen. If the mother is post ~25 weeks, and the baby healthy, the dr won’t perform an abortion. The only time this happens after ~25 weeks is if there is a problem with the baby.
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