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Late Term abortions. I hear the conservative right using this as a moral stick with which to beat the left. How DARE they allow late term abortion?!

...Well what do you think a late term abortion is? Think about it for a moment...
Do you think a woman is carrying her pregnancy to 6 or 8 months and saying " Actually no, i don't want this baby, i'll have an abortion" ?

No.
If a woman is carrying a pregnancy that far likely wants that child or at least intends to carry it to term.
Late term abortions occur in cases where either there are unsurvivable defects to the developing child or life threatening complications for the mother.

So my question: Under those circumstances, how can you reasonably and ethically object to the legality of late term abortions?
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missyann · 56-60
With medical technology today, there is no medical reason for a late term abortion . Not one unborn life has to be intentionally and deliberately killed to save her mothers life. These instances are so rare today that they are never.

Conditions that threaten a mother’s lie usually occur after 21 weeks when the baby can survive and a C-section or an early induction can be done to try to save both lives even in cases when doctors know that the baby has a little chance of survival,. Even in the instances with fetal abnormalities, and the baby has a life limiting condition the mother Has. to give birth anyway why not allow that child to be born and treated with dignity and respect no matter how long it has to live. There is palliative hospice that ensures that the baby does not suffer.. even if the mother doesn’t want to see or hold that baby, it will die in the arms of love with a palliative nurse

How did people think that a baby came to survive at 21 weeks? A doctor gave all they had to save That babies life
@missyann

With medical technology today, there is no medical reason for a late term abortion

That is incorrect.
Medical technology has come a long way but there are still bad things that happen that we cannot fix or prevent.

Given the false premise, there's nothing else to say here.
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@missyann i know a woman whose fetus died around 8 months. She was in a catholic hospital, and they would not even abort a dead fetus due to abortion restrictions, despite risks to the mother.

Sorry, but Roe was the correct ruling.
missyann · 56-60
@trollslayer When did this happen? Can you show me the report that says it?
I am not saying that women don’t die in childbirth they do. If this happened the way you said she would have been taken care of by a surgeon not an abortion doctor

There is no moral or medical reason why a dead fetus should not be removed. If a hospital refuses to do this, it is grounds for a lawsuit. The reports of this happening over the last couple years is false. With these women, their babies might have been expected to die at birth, or shortly after, but they had not died yet. You don’t remove a fetus that is alive.. in these reports. They say nothing about a physician who specializes in high-risk pregnancies, refusing to remove the dead fetus. These reports come from the women about them not being able to get the abortion they wanted to.

Roe v. Wade should have never been passed in 1973
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@missyann this is a personal friend. No news story, happened about 4 years ago. IIRC right after Roe was overturned. Her fetus was deceased, and the hospital refused to give her drugs to induce her body to pass the fetus because they are the same drugs used for abortion and they were concerned about the red state law against abortion that was now in effect. So she had to wait a week with a dead fetus in her before it delivered naturally.
missyann · 56-60
@trollslayer I am not saying that it didn’t happen the way you say it did but no doctor should be afraid to use these drugs in that situation. There couldn’t have been a legal issue if her fetus was dead. I know it sounds cruel, but unless there is an infection, it is safer for the mother to naturally pass the dead fetus.
missyann · 56-60
@Pikachu Give me a situation today when a mother could lose her life late term when an emergency c section or an early induction can not be done by a Dr who specializes in high risk pregnancy or a surgeon. An abortion quacks should not be involved
@missyann
Ending her pregnancy saved her life
The swelling was the first sign that something was wrong. It showed up in her hands and feet. She struggled to squeeze into shoes.

Susan flipped open her “What to Expect When You’re Expecting” book and turned to the section that outlined when to call a doctor. Her kind of swelling and sudden weight gain – she’d put on 11 pounds in one week – made the list.

He wasn’t an ob-gyn, so she called hers.

“Have your husband take your blood pressure, just when he’s able to,” the doctor advised.

On their way to dinner in Berkeley, California, that evening, he suggested that they swing by his office first.

Her blood pressure “was off the charts,” Susan remembers 30 years later. Her husband dialed the obstetrician, who asked whether he had any urine testing strips handy. He did, and they showed that Susan’s protein levels were dangerously high, indicating a problem with her kidneys.

“Get over to the hospital right away,” the obstetrician ordered.

Susan at first balked. She felt fine, just swollen. Plus, she was hungry.

“Can’t we go to dinner first?” she asked before being rushed out the door.

She stayed in denial for as long as she could. Doctors were alarmed about her blood pressure, but she wasn’t. They said her kidneys were shutting down, but that didn’t register. Instead, she focused on the ultrasound they took, which revealed the baby’s gender.

She looked with excitement at her husband.
“Oh, my goodness, we’re going to have a boy!” she said. “Aren’t you happy?”

His face was grim, she remembered. “He knew that this was not looking good at all.”

She was at 24 weeks and had severe preeclampsia. Doctors said she was on the verge of having a stroke.

“It’s like you’re being poisoned by pregnancy,” she said, explaining her condition, “And the only way to cure it is to not be pregnant.”

The fetus was behind in its development and not where it should be at 24 weeks.

It “needs at least two weeks to be even minimally viable, and you just don’t have two weeks,” the doctors told her. “You don’t have two days.”

Still, she tried to negotiate a deal. She was a physical therapist. She could rehab herself after a stroke, she told them. She could rehab their baby. She wanted to deliver it, if not vaginally, then by C-section. They said her body could not withstand either.

They promised her the fetus would feel no pain before stopping its heartbeat. Then they put Susan under to perform the dilation and evacuation procedure, in which the cervix is dilated and the contents of the uterus extracted.

Her abortion was a necessity and felt like “such a no-choice choice,” said Susan, 59, who later had two daughters.

It wasn’t what she wanted. It was what she needed to live.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/25/health/abortion-late-in-pregnancy-eprise/index.html


Buuut i know this example that you requested will fall on deaf ears because to you this can be safely dismissed because any healthcare professional who recommends abortion is and "abortion quack" 🙄
missyann · 56-60
@Pikachu Its not deaf ears. If she would have went to the hospital ASAP she could have Possibly Saved. Baby's life. Preeclampsia Heart, kidney problems are Usually.detected before they become life threatening. Most can be Successfully Treated and managed. An emergency C. section Can be done in 20 minutes. In this women's case a doctor who specializes in high risk pregnancies should have been called and met them at the hospital

I am not in denial. I am willing to listen and consider anything anyone says and if there is proof that is Irrefutable, I'm not to proud to admit I'm wrong. Ectopic Pregnancy And cases To save a mother's life in cases like cancer have Always have been legal and remain legal today. I'm not being a smartass when I say Drs who never preformed abortions have no.problem making life and death choices and don't fear Getting in any trouble. Drs Who have performed abortions In the past Have Fear Because they Falsely Used Life and death Diagnosis So now they are on radar
@missyann

Think about what you just said: If she would have

So what you actually just said was "If circumstances were different then perhaps the baby would have lived".

If the woman had immediately realized she was in a medical emergency then maybe the baby would have lived.
If the woman had recognized earlier that something was wrong then maybe the baby would have lived.
If the woman was a expert doctor who was constantly monitoring her pregnancy then maybe the baby would have lived...woulda, coulda, shoulda...That doesn't change the circumstance that this woman found herself in which necessitated a medically induced abortion to save her life.


You asked me to give you a situation wherein this procedure was medically necessary and i gave you one.
Your response was "what if the situation had have been different".

So yeah, seems like this is falling on deaf ears.
Even with an example before you, you still make excuses.
missyann · 56-60
@Pikachu I had more to add I added it My response. Yeah coulda, woulda. Shoulda. Her carelessness Resulted in the death of an innocent Baby
@missyann

lmaooo ever hear the expression "Hindsight is 20/20" ?

Her carelessness Resulted in the death of an innocent Baby

Reality check: People aren't perfect, they don't have foreknowledge, they try to ignore things that may be a problem or scare them.
But you know what? Who cares. You can demonize a woman for not knowing her pregnancy was in jeopardy or not acting exactly as she should have to save it even though she didn't have the benefit of hind sight.

Does.
Not.
Matter.

The situation is what it is and you challenged me to give you a situation wherein this procedure was medically necessary and i gave you one.
Your response was "what if the situation had have been different".

You claim to be open to an opposing view but your only defense against a defeater to your premise is "Well if things had have been different then the abortion wouldn't be necessary".

lol

Maybe you have access to foreknowledge or a time machine. Most of us don't and so a decision made is a decision made.
The resulting circumstance is unchangeable and the argument that the circumstance could be different if earlier actions were undone is pointless and asinine.

so tell me again how open you are to being wrong on this subject...
missyann · 56-60
@Pikachu Read what you yourself wrote. I'm not saying by the time she got to the hospital It wasn't necessary. Maybe if she hadn't been in denial as long as possible And thinking about food an Innocent human life Wouldn't have had to be Intentionally and deliberately Ended. . And you are using the excuse That " nobody is perfect ". Would you use the same Excuse If a 1 year-old drowned in a bathtub And the mother Was in Denial As long as possible That it could happen And Thinking about food ? Yes I suppose that nobody's perfect. I suppose That she shouldn't be blamed either
@missyann

I'm not saying by the time she got to the hospital It wasn't necessary.

So then you concede that under some circumstances, late term abortions are justified.

Yes or no?
missyann · 56-60
@Pikachu It should have never happened. Are you saying that being completely irresponsible Justified Her intentionally and deliberately ending an innocent human life.? She Is responsible For killing her baby.
" Oh my goodness We're gonna have a baby boy " " Oh my goodness Because I was thinking of food and was in denial for as long as possible I have to kill our baby boy " To save my life.

I stand by what I say There is no abortion that is medically necessary. I definitely misspoke When I said I'm not saying it wasn't medically necessary by the time she got to the hospital
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trollslayer · 46-50, M
@missyann “ Not one unborn life has to be intentionally and deliberately killed to save her mothers life. These instances are so rare today that they are never.”

And that is why it never happens. If there is a life threatening emergency for the mother after about 21 weeks, the doctor delivers the baby as a premie. Late term abortions are extremely rare and only happen when the fetus has a fatal abnormality and the health of the mother would be at a greater risk carrying the fetus to term vs an abortion. For this reason, I see no reason to make a law prohibiting what doesn’t happen anyway.
missyann · 56-60
@trollslayer I personally Don't believe A fetal abnormality Justifies an abortion. There is pallitive hospice care that ensures that the baby doesn't suffer in life limiting conditions. The mother has to deliver the baby either way. Why does this innocent human life Have to be intentionally and deliberately killed ? It doesn't matter if the baby lives 1 minute or 10 days the baby deserves to be born. If the parents don't want to see it or hold it, a hospice nurse will allow it to die in arms of love.

Unfortunately we have to have a law for something that rarely happens because pro abortion always push the limits. Like abortion laws they kept pushing further and further until its almost birth
missyann · 56-60
@Pikachu You aren’t going to let me
“ squirm “ out. I’m not…o

I shouldn’t have had to say a medically necessary, abortion due to circumstances beyond her control, but I suppose I should have

I have a question you said that the doctor told her that she could not withstand a vaginal delivery or a C-section. How did the baby come out? Because i’m certain it didn’t disintegrate. Even in cases when the baby cannot survive, a preterm delivery can be done. After 24 weeks when most so-called life-threatening conditions occur and abortion takes 2 to 3 days to complete due to the dilation process. So why did this baby have to be intentionally and deliberately killed just save her life

Pro life advocates agree that medically necessary abortions mean that it is beyond a mother and her doctors control, which is why there are no such thing as medically necessary abortions. Even in certain sudden life-threatening emergencies emergency management of the condition a lot of times is done to prevent the death of the mother and the baby.

And the oops could’ of would of should of doesn’t fly she didn’t miscarry an early pregnancy.. a human life with a heart head, arms, legs, eyes ears ect was intentionally, and deliberately killed

Do you know how the baby was removed? If the doctor said it would feel no pain that means he killed it before he delivered it.

This is just a bizarre example with a lot of incomplete parts to the story?
@missyann

just save her life

...so that her life would be saved.

You seem to think that demanding exact medical details somehow reinforces your position.
It does not. It merely underlines the rigidity of your thinking.

And then you characterize saving the woman's life as an insufficient reason....
You accept no counter example and you do not consider the woman's life worth saving.

There is no avenue for productive conversation here.
missyann · 56-60
@Pikachu You didn’t answer. How was the baby delivered? Or aborted ?