Support for Ukraine: Time for a Clear Decision

@zonavar68 You mean all the money poured into the domestic defence industry, right? You realise that nobody actually sends Ukraine a cheque, don't you.

Ukraine is defeating the russian barbarians while using the West's surplus and obsolete stock. Rather than bearing the costs associated with disposing of that equipment the West now has the russians doing it for them, and doing it at russia's expense. 😂

The modern replacement equipment would need to be manufactured in any event, as part of the routine replacement cycle.

@zonavar68 For all the money poured into the Vietnam War, world hunger could have been eliminated. For all the money poured into fighting crime, the environment could have been protected to prevent the scars placed on the earth that will negatively impact humanity for the next 100+ years for which future generations will curse us. For all the money poured into fighting the effects of tobacco use on the human body, that could have nullified the need for tax increases over the decades.

@zonavar68 The whole thing is a giveaway to the defence industry. Plus it makes Ukraine entirely dependent on foreign companies for defense.

And the US gets to make Ukrainians die for their little Red Dawn fantasies.


And well it is also a good way to pretend dumping scrap in Ukraine is something noble and it gives NATO members an excuse to go on shopping sprees which also make more billions for the gun runners in Virginia.

So the US gets to send another vassal to bleed and die for their empire, make billions off the death and destruction, create another captive market, and keep the glorification of the military and the gun runners.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Ukraine is already developing its own industries to help defend against any future aggression by the russian barbarians... although once the russians are driven out of Ukraine by force of arms it will be quite some time until they bother Europe again.

Are you seriously claiming that Ukrainians are bleeding and dying because of the US? Seriously??

The russian gangster cabal initially invaded the sovereign democracy of Ukraine in 2014, and in 2022 radically expanded that invasion and began murdering Ukraine's men, women, children, and babies.

Would you like pictures? Bucha, Lyman, Mariupol..? Day after day the barbarians attack Ukrainian apartment buildings, malls, schools, hospitals, play grounds... and you claim that the US made that happen??

Would you prefer the West did nothing? Certainly that's what putin and his régime thought would happen.

Well, it's now Day 918 of the latest invasion... and russia is crashing.

Слава Україні! 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 🇺🇸

@newjaninev2 Putin is using Ukraine as a 'test bed' for how to restore the USSR.

@newjaninev2 Ukraine had its own defense industry and has for decades. If you look at what is being set up the vast majority are just subsidiaries of American, Canadian or European mega corporations.

Lets not pretend a McDonalds franchise in Auckland is a Kiwi company.

And everything is now made to NATO standards which means they are exclusively locked in to selling to NATO member states.



Yes. This is a proxy war. Quit pretending it is not. Not even American propaganda outlets are gaslighting people about it being anything else.


Russia attacked Ukraine after the US carried out a coup in 2014 and made it a hostile vassal state and spent a decade arming Ukraine for a fight with the Russians and plunged the country into civil war in the process.

Lets not forget that the US has lied with every agreement made with the Russians since 1991 so the US and NATO have proven that diplomacy is kind of a waste of time since treatise are not made in good faith by the Americans.

Also within the opening months of the war Russia started talks for peace with Ukraine and the US told them to stand and fight.

Yet again after Istanbul the US sent their errand boy Boris Johnson to tell Ukraine to stop any peace talks and fight or they would lose all support from the west.


The entire point is for Ukraine to fight the Russians to the last Ukrainian for the US empire.


Would you like me to present the speech were the Ukrainian government declared 2 million Russian Ukrainians terrorists for having the wrong ethnicity or when the president bragged about shelling children in the Donbas?

Or the Odessa Trade Union Hall Massacre?

Oh and fun fact Human Rights Watch put out a report that Ukraine was positioning weapons in residential areas as human shields.

And Mariupol the home of the Azov SS battalion. Oh I shed no tears for those clowns.

Or that the military and security services are run by literal neo nazis?

Heck even Radio Free Europe openly did an expose on this in 2019.

Heck even my own Canada decided to pretend the Waffen SS were freedom fighters to support the war in Ukraine.


The west has done enough to destroy Ukraine.


And it is cute how you just blindly accept all propaganda without any thinking. Just like the Creationists you like to attack on other topics.


But don't worry. I am sure you will sign up for the American war with China right? After all AUKUS is all about making you cannon fodder eventually too. Or is it just when others die for your western empire?

A tip here. If you are on the side of literal nazis, you probably are on the wrong side.

And this is not even the first time the US has done this. Operation Red Sox. In the 50s the US backed Waffen SS from Ukraine to try and pull what they succeeded in in 2014.

It was also done in Yugoslavia in the 1990s. Suddenly The Ustaše and Chetniks were the good guys.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
"the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century"
putin (2005)

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
Well who would want to manufacture the garbage that is currently failing the russians?? Not even russia's 'allies' want it! 😂

@newjaninev2 You should look up Zbigniew Brzezinski. It has been US policy to colonize Ukraine and Russia since the 1990s.


The only thing that changed is they expected to have it done by 2010.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow This happened at the same time as Germany was forced to 're-unify'. Bit ironic.

@zonavar68 Well the US has proven to have lied about every agreement that led to the reunification of Germany.


Not one inch east of Berlin. Pretty sure Kiev is east of Berlin.

@zonavar68 Hell NATO has even been used to violate the NPT since the 60s.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
Who said that?

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow AK-47?

Umm, I don't think the russian terrorist state is going to save itself by flogging off small-arms from the 1940s 😂

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Yeah, 'out of context' and 'russia the eternal victim' and endless waves of 'whataboutism' and bounce around between the centuries... straight from the kremlin-supplied bot manual.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow "We are not going to impose anything on anybody by force"

The hollow man days before the russian people invaded the sovereign democracy of Ukraine

Out of context, is it?

"Our plans do not involve the occupation of Ukrainian territory"

The hollow man immediately after the russian people launched a genocidal war against the sovereign democracy of Ukraine

Out of context, is it?

"Ukraine for us is not just a neighbouring country, it is an integral part of our heritage, culture, spiritual space"

The hollow man after deciding that in fact the russian people would impose themselves on Ukraine by force, and in fact would occupy Ukrainian territory.

Out of context, is it?

"I want to emphasise in particular that the russian armed forces do not strike at the cities of Ukraine. Nothing threatens the civilian population of Ukraine"

Lt. General Konashenkov... shortly before the russian people launched massive missile strikes against schools, apartment buildings, hospital, shopping malls, and playgrounds.

russia... always playing the victim.

russia... always bemoaning how badly it has been duped by everyone else

tedious

@newjaninev2 Again, democracy ended in 2014 with the coup. Unless violent coups are now "democracy".


It is out of context. Taking more statements out of context doesn't change that.


And yeah no. This is not genocide. The closest we come to in this war is the Ukrainian government bragging since 2014 that they are slaughtering civilians and declaring entire ethnic groups terrorists.


And more statements out of context that also show you don't know anything about the history of either nation.


Russia and Ukraine both have their origins from exactly the same culture. Hell the European Russians originated in Kiev.

And they have only existed as separate for 30 of the last 1000 years.

Edit: Sorry a version of a separate Ukraine existed as a nazi puppet state briefly in the 30s which incidentally is what the current Ukraine is modeled after with some territorial changes like eastern Ukraine.


I guess we will not address that according to Haaretz Ukraine has more monuments to nazis than any nation on earth.

But sure. We will pretend that doesn't have any impact on cultural views.

Or the fact that the modern state of Ukraine was cobbled together by the USSR in the last 80 years and not based on any historical or cultural lines.




And Ukraine dropped cluster munitions on a public beach. But no mention of that anywhere. Convenient.


Again. If Iran toppled the Mexican government and put a hostile puppet state in charge. How many hours would it be before NATO was leveling Mexico City?


And you taking about democracy. Out of both nations the only one that even still has elections is Russia.

Ukraine is now a dictatorship.

Or maybe you might want to address the fact that dictator Zelensky pushed through an edit making it illegal for the Ukrainian government to negotiate peace in this conflict?


Or maybe look into why they are putting machine guns and mines on their WESTERN border.

And you know when you put a fascist neo nazi clown show on the border of a country that lost 27 million (and likely still counting) people to nazis. You really think that is going to ad up to a hippie love fest?

Speaks volumes that someone who has never seen war in their own country is so cheerful to egg on wars in other countries.

Someone else gets to suffer for your imperialist ideology.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
Just a suggestion: you're overplaying your kremlin talking-points.

The barbarians destroyed a missile attacking their illegal military installation in Ukraine and a small part of that missile's payload killed a few russians who were illegally in Ukraine and stupid enough to vacation in a war zone.

If the russians had not tried to steal Ukrainian land ten years ago, or if the russians had simply gone back to their own territory, none of that would have been necessary, and none of that would have happened.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
It is not uncommon for elections to be suspended during a war... Britain did that during WWII. The logistics alone make it impossible to hold free and fair elections when so many are away driving back the russian invaders who are murdering Ukraine's men, women, children, and babies.

If course, that's not a problem for the russians... their elections are neither fair nor free

@newjaninev2 Or maybe explain how Zelensky has charged basically all opposition with treason including former president Poroshenko.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow that's not how you spell putin