Musk Responds to $354 Million Ruling in Trump’s Civil Fraud Case With One Simple Question
“Given that there were no victims with losses, who is supposed to receive the money?”
70-79, M
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ElwoodBlues · M
I'm doing your research for ya, sunstroke!!
The cause of action is of a type known as a “stand-alone § 63(12) claim.” Consistent with the wording of the statute, plaintiff need only prove that defendants used false statements in business.
New York Executive Law EXC § 63(12)
"The law under which Ms. James sued, known by its shorthand 63(12), requires the plaintiff to show a defendant’s conduct was deceptive. If that standard is met, a judge can impose severe punishment, including forfeiting the money obtained through fraud. Ms. James has also used this law against the oil company ExxonMobil, the tobacco brand Juul and the pharma executive Martin Shkreli."
Here's a bit more about the scale of Trump's falsifications (sorry about the ugly formatting: that's the way Fox News presented it):
These are just a few choice excerpts of the many instances of Trump falsifying business records on a massive scale. For more, see https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2024/02/Judge-Engoron-ruling-in-Trump-New-York-civil-fraud-case.pdf
As noted above, in a “stand-alone § 63(12) claim.” plaintiff need only prove that defendants used false statements in business.
The cause of action is of a type known as a “stand-alone § 63(12) claim.” Consistent with the wording of the statute, plaintiff need only prove that defendants used false statements in business.
New York Executive Law EXC § 63(12)
12.Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law 3 or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper. The word “fraud” or “fraudulent” as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term “persistent fraud” or “illegality” as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term “repeated” as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.
"The law under which Ms. James sued, known by its shorthand 63(12), requires the plaintiff to show a defendant’s conduct was deceptive. If that standard is met, a judge can impose severe punishment, including forfeiting the money obtained through fraud. Ms. James has also used this law against the oil company ExxonMobil, the tobacco brand Juul and the pharma executive Martin Shkreli."
Here's a bit more about the scale of Trump's falsifications (sorry about the ugly formatting: that's the way Fox News presented it):
Donald Bender ...
Bender made absolutely clear that under the terms of the engagement for compilation services,
the client was responsible for ensuring that assets were stated at their “estimated current values,”
and that Weisselberg was responsible for determining which GAAP departures were identified
and disclosed. TT 237-238, 319-320. The engagement letters, signed by a combination of
Weisselberg, Donald Trump, and Donald Trump, Jr., confirmed this by unambiguously
acknowledging that Donald Trump, through his trustees, was responsible for the preparation and
fair presentation of the personal financial information in accordance with GAAP. See, e.g., PX
741.
Bender later learned that the Trump Organization had withheld records, such as appraisals, that
Mazars had requested while preparing the compilations, leading Mazars to conclude that the
Trump Organization had falsely represented that it had complied fully and truthfully with all
inquiries from Mazars. Mazars subsequently terminated its relationship with the Trump
Organization. TT 242-243; PX 2992, 2994. Bender stated that it was not until he was
interviewed by the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office, in spring 2021, that he learned that the
Trump Organization had withheld appraisals from Mazars. TT 536-538. Bender made clear that
Mazars would not have issued the SFCs if it had known that it had not been provided with all
appraisals. TT 251.
. . .
Camron Harris ...
TT 450-451. Harris also indicated that the Trump Organization designated McConney as the
“individual with suitable skills, knowledge and experience to oversee [Whitley Penn’s]
preparation of your financial statements,” as the Whitley Penn compilation engagement
agreement required. TT 459-464; PX-2300. Harris stressed the “fundamental” importance of
the client’s obligations, particularly during a compilation engagement, emphasizing that “[u]nder
a compilation, we are not doing anything, you know, to verify the accuracy of that information,
so that responsibility and accountability follows within the client to be doing those things so that
the information is correct, because we didn’t do anything to verify that it is correct.” TT 464-
465.
Harris further made clear that Whitley Penn would not have issued the 2021 SFC without a
signed representation letter from the client, indicating that it acknowledged its responsibility for
providing a fair presentation of values in accordance with GAAP. TT 480-481.
. . .
Nicholas Haigh...
Before approving the credit facility, the Private Wealth Management Division consulted
Deutsche Bank’s Valuation Services Group about market conditions to arrive at a conservative
estimate of the value of the commercial real estate should a need arise to liquidate during “bad
market conditions.” TT 1013-1016. In so doing, the Valuation Services Group applied a 50%
Page 10 of 92
452564/2022 PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, BY LETITIA JAMES, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK vs.
“haircut” to the valuations presented by the client, which Haigh affirmed was the “standardized
number for commercial real assets.”6 TT 1016, 1041.
Haigh affirmed that the Private Wealth Management Division would not have done business
with Donald Trump without a personal guarantee, and that the personal guarantee was the reason
for favorable pricing on the loan and the large size of the loan itself. TT 1017, 1020-1021, 1032.
. . .
Doug Larson...
The covenant obligated Donald Trump to provide an annual financial statement. Haigh stressed
that the annual SFCs were required because “[t]he bank wants to be sure that the client’s
financial strength is being maintained and also the bank wants to be able to test its covenants
periodically,” and that “[t]he bank would use the financial information that [the client] provided
to test itself to try and ensure that the client is in compliance with those covenants.” TT 1022-
1023.
. . .
Larson testified clearly and credibly that although his name is cited as the source to justify a
2.940 capitalization (or “cap”) rate8 on Niketown, a property in which Donald Trump owned two
long-term leases on 57th Street, Larson never had a specific conversation with Jeffrey McConney
in which he advised him that such a cap rate would be appropriate; nor was he aware that he was
listed as a source for such a cap rate. TT 1572-1575; See, e.g., PX 758. Larson further said that
he would not have advised McConney to select that cap rate, as “it’s not how we would value [it]
in our practice.” TT 1583. Larson stated that McConney was incorrect in stating that he
consulted with Larson when valuing Trump Tower. TT 1581.
Upon learning that his name had been repeatedly used to justify cap rates that he had not
recommended, Larson said it was “inappropriate and inaccurate … I should have been told and,
you know, an appraisal should have been ordered.” TT 1587.
Larson further took issue with his name being used to justify a cap rate on the property
controlled by a Vornado partnership interest. In 2012, Larson appraised the property at 1290
Avenue of the Americas at $2 billion with a cap rate of 4.5 percent. PX 1824; TT 1588-1589.
Notwithstanding, in the following SFC’s supporting data, McConney cites Larson as the source
for using a 3.12 percent cap rate, even though he never worked with McConney to pick a cap rate
to value that property, and that he would not have, as valuing minority interests is a specialized
area beyond his expertise. TT 1589-1595.
. . .
Michael Holl...
On January 10, 2017, Holl attended a meeting at the Trump Organization with Allen Weisselberg
and other Trump Organization employees for the purpose of reviewing the Trump Organization’s
financials as part of the insurance company’s due diligence. PX 588; TT 2496-2498, 2516. On
the way home from the meeting, Holl drafted an email to his supervisors memorializing the
information he obtained. PX 2985; TT 2498-2499. Holl’s contemporaneous email reads: “Saw
very few financials but did see the balance sheet for year ends 2015. They assured me that the
one being put together is better. They have total assets of 6.6 BB. Cash of $192 mm. Total debt
of $519 mm. No single debt larger than $160mm.” PX 2985. Holl testified that the $192
million in cash was a meaningful number for him, as it “was a measure of liquidity for the
company.” TT 2500.
Holl’s contemporaneous email also reads: “No material litigation or communication from
anyone.” PX 2985. Holl understood this to be a representation from the Trump Organization
that there was no pending litigation or notices or communication that could lead to litigation and
implicate the D&O policy, which he viewed in a positive light. TT 2500-2502.
Holl deemed these representations relevant when HCC ultimately decided to extend coverage.
TT 2502.
Page 17 of 92
452564/2022 PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, BY LETITIA JAMES, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK vs.
one being put together is better. They have total assets of 6.6 BB. Cash of $192 mm. Total debt
of $519 mm. No single debt larger than $160mm.” PX 2985. Holl testified that the $192
million in cash was a meaningful number for him, as it “was a measure of liquidity for the
company.” TT 2500.
Holl’s contemporaneous email also reads: “No material litigation or communication from
anyone.” PX 2985. Holl understood this to be a representation from the Trump Organization
that there was no pending litigation or notices or communication that could lead to litigation and
implicate the D&O policy, which he viewed in a positive light. TT 2500-2502.
Holl deemed these representations relevant when HCC ultimately decided to extend coverage.
TT 2502.
Sheri Dillon
Sheri Dillon is a tax lawyer who provided business and legal advice to the Trump Organization
from 2005 through 2020. TT 2527. Throughout her various engagements from 2011-2020,
Dillon interfaced with Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Jr. Eric Trump, Ivanka Trump, Patrick
Birney, and Jill Martin. TT 2532-2534.
Contrary to the representations made to Holl about no pending litigation or claims, as early as
June 2016 Dillon was aware of claims made against the Trump Organization that could trigger
liability, and she had discussed such claims with Donald Trump, Jeffrey McConney, and Allen
Weisselberg. TT 2540-2555.
Part of her work for the Trump Organization was advising it about potential conservation
easements. TT 2531. Dillon explained that a conservation easement is essentially a “negative
covenant” in which someone who owns property agrees, in a recorded deed that runs in
perpetuity with the land, not to do something, in exchange for a tax deduction that is “equal to
the value of the easement.” TT 4123-4126.
Dillon recalls working on potential conservation easements at Trump National Golf Club LA
(“TNGCLA”), Briarcliff, and Seven Springs. As part of her engagements, Dillon would retain
appraisers from Cushman & Wakefield. She explained that obtaining a qualified appraisal to
value the potential conservation easement is an essential part of the process, as only a qualified
appraisal could determine the value of the tax deduction that could be taken. TT 4127-4128.
She clarified that qualified appraisers were tasked with determining the “highest and best use” of
a property if it were developed. TT 4141-4142.
When working on a potential conservation easement for TNGCLA, Dillon retained Brian Curry,
of Cushman & Wakefield, who valued the driving range on the property at between $27-28
million in 2014. PX 944; TT 2578-2580. On March 12, 2015, Cushman & Wakefield sent an
appraisal of the TNGCLA driving range portion of the property that valued it at $25 million as of
December 26, 2014; the appraisal also valued the entire TNGCLA property, before any potential
conservation easement, at $107 million. PX 1464; TT 2598-2603. Although Dillon could not
recall exactly with whom at the Trump Organization she shared this valuation, she knows it
would have gone to McConney, as he “would have needed it.” TT 2608-2611. Further, email
communications demonstrate ongoing discussions between Dillon, Weisselberg, and Trump, Jr.
about the potential conservation easement on TNGCLA. PX 1412; TT 4142-4146.
Notwithstanding, the 2015 supporting data and accompanying SFC valued TNGCLA at over
$140 million. PX 731; TT 2611-2623.
Bender made absolutely clear that under the terms of the engagement for compilation services,
the client was responsible for ensuring that assets were stated at their “estimated current values,”
and that Weisselberg was responsible for determining which GAAP departures were identified
and disclosed. TT 237-238, 319-320. The engagement letters, signed by a combination of
Weisselberg, Donald Trump, and Donald Trump, Jr., confirmed this by unambiguously
acknowledging that Donald Trump, through his trustees, was responsible for the preparation and
fair presentation of the personal financial information in accordance with GAAP. See, e.g., PX
741.
Bender later learned that the Trump Organization had withheld records, such as appraisals, that
Mazars had requested while preparing the compilations, leading Mazars to conclude that the
Trump Organization had falsely represented that it had complied fully and truthfully with all
inquiries from Mazars. Mazars subsequently terminated its relationship with the Trump
Organization. TT 242-243; PX 2992, 2994. Bender stated that it was not until he was
interviewed by the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office, in spring 2021, that he learned that the
Trump Organization had withheld appraisals from Mazars. TT 536-538. Bender made clear that
Mazars would not have issued the SFCs if it had known that it had not been provided with all
appraisals. TT 251.
. . .
Camron Harris ...
TT 450-451. Harris also indicated that the Trump Organization designated McConney as the
“individual with suitable skills, knowledge and experience to oversee [Whitley Penn’s]
preparation of your financial statements,” as the Whitley Penn compilation engagement
agreement required. TT 459-464; PX-2300. Harris stressed the “fundamental” importance of
the client’s obligations, particularly during a compilation engagement, emphasizing that “[u]nder
a compilation, we are not doing anything, you know, to verify the accuracy of that information,
so that responsibility and accountability follows within the client to be doing those things so that
the information is correct, because we didn’t do anything to verify that it is correct.” TT 464-
465.
Harris further made clear that Whitley Penn would not have issued the 2021 SFC without a
signed representation letter from the client, indicating that it acknowledged its responsibility for
providing a fair presentation of values in accordance with GAAP. TT 480-481.
. . .
Nicholas Haigh...
Before approving the credit facility, the Private Wealth Management Division consulted
Deutsche Bank’s Valuation Services Group about market conditions to arrive at a conservative
estimate of the value of the commercial real estate should a need arise to liquidate during “bad
market conditions.” TT 1013-1016. In so doing, the Valuation Services Group applied a 50%
Page 10 of 92
452564/2022 PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, BY LETITIA JAMES, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK vs.
“haircut” to the valuations presented by the client, which Haigh affirmed was the “standardized
number for commercial real assets.”6 TT 1016, 1041.
Haigh affirmed that the Private Wealth Management Division would not have done business
with Donald Trump without a personal guarantee, and that the personal guarantee was the reason
for favorable pricing on the loan and the large size of the loan itself. TT 1017, 1020-1021, 1032.
. . .
Doug Larson...
The covenant obligated Donald Trump to provide an annual financial statement. Haigh stressed
that the annual SFCs were required because “[t]he bank wants to be sure that the client’s
financial strength is being maintained and also the bank wants to be able to test its covenants
periodically,” and that “[t]he bank would use the financial information that [the client] provided
to test itself to try and ensure that the client is in compliance with those covenants.” TT 1022-
1023.
. . .
Larson testified clearly and credibly that although his name is cited as the source to justify a
2.940 capitalization (or “cap”) rate8 on Niketown, a property in which Donald Trump owned two
long-term leases on 57th Street, Larson never had a specific conversation with Jeffrey McConney
in which he advised him that such a cap rate would be appropriate; nor was he aware that he was
listed as a source for such a cap rate. TT 1572-1575; See, e.g., PX 758. Larson further said that
he would not have advised McConney to select that cap rate, as “it’s not how we would value [it]
in our practice.” TT 1583. Larson stated that McConney was incorrect in stating that he
consulted with Larson when valuing Trump Tower. TT 1581.
Upon learning that his name had been repeatedly used to justify cap rates that he had not
recommended, Larson said it was “inappropriate and inaccurate … I should have been told and,
you know, an appraisal should have been ordered.” TT 1587.
Larson further took issue with his name being used to justify a cap rate on the property
controlled by a Vornado partnership interest. In 2012, Larson appraised the property at 1290
Avenue of the Americas at $2 billion with a cap rate of 4.5 percent. PX 1824; TT 1588-1589.
Notwithstanding, in the following SFC’s supporting data, McConney cites Larson as the source
for using a 3.12 percent cap rate, even though he never worked with McConney to pick a cap rate
to value that property, and that he would not have, as valuing minority interests is a specialized
area beyond his expertise. TT 1589-1595.
. . .
Michael Holl...
On January 10, 2017, Holl attended a meeting at the Trump Organization with Allen Weisselberg
and other Trump Organization employees for the purpose of reviewing the Trump Organization’s
financials as part of the insurance company’s due diligence. PX 588; TT 2496-2498, 2516. On
the way home from the meeting, Holl drafted an email to his supervisors memorializing the
information he obtained. PX 2985; TT 2498-2499. Holl’s contemporaneous email reads: “Saw
very few financials but did see the balance sheet for year ends 2015. They assured me that the
one being put together is better. They have total assets of 6.6 BB. Cash of $192 mm. Total debt
of $519 mm. No single debt larger than $160mm.” PX 2985. Holl testified that the $192
million in cash was a meaningful number for him, as it “was a measure of liquidity for the
company.” TT 2500.
Holl’s contemporaneous email also reads: “No material litigation or communication from
anyone.” PX 2985. Holl understood this to be a representation from the Trump Organization
that there was no pending litigation or notices or communication that could lead to litigation and
implicate the D&O policy, which he viewed in a positive light. TT 2500-2502.
Holl deemed these representations relevant when HCC ultimately decided to extend coverage.
TT 2502.
Page 17 of 92
452564/2022 PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, BY LETITIA JAMES, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK vs.
one being put together is better. They have total assets of 6.6 BB. Cash of $192 mm. Total debt
of $519 mm. No single debt larger than $160mm.” PX 2985. Holl testified that the $192
million in cash was a meaningful number for him, as it “was a measure of liquidity for the
company.” TT 2500.
Holl’s contemporaneous email also reads: “No material litigation or communication from
anyone.” PX 2985. Holl understood this to be a representation from the Trump Organization
that there was no pending litigation or notices or communication that could lead to litigation and
implicate the D&O policy, which he viewed in a positive light. TT 2500-2502.
Holl deemed these representations relevant when HCC ultimately decided to extend coverage.
TT 2502.
Sheri Dillon
Sheri Dillon is a tax lawyer who provided business and legal advice to the Trump Organization
from 2005 through 2020. TT 2527. Throughout her various engagements from 2011-2020,
Dillon interfaced with Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Jr. Eric Trump, Ivanka Trump, Patrick
Birney, and Jill Martin. TT 2532-2534.
Contrary to the representations made to Holl about no pending litigation or claims, as early as
June 2016 Dillon was aware of claims made against the Trump Organization that could trigger
liability, and she had discussed such claims with Donald Trump, Jeffrey McConney, and Allen
Weisselberg. TT 2540-2555.
Part of her work for the Trump Organization was advising it about potential conservation
easements. TT 2531. Dillon explained that a conservation easement is essentially a “negative
covenant” in which someone who owns property agrees, in a recorded deed that runs in
perpetuity with the land, not to do something, in exchange for a tax deduction that is “equal to
the value of the easement.” TT 4123-4126.
Dillon recalls working on potential conservation easements at Trump National Golf Club LA
(“TNGCLA”), Briarcliff, and Seven Springs. As part of her engagements, Dillon would retain
appraisers from Cushman & Wakefield. She explained that obtaining a qualified appraisal to
value the potential conservation easement is an essential part of the process, as only a qualified
appraisal could determine the value of the tax deduction that could be taken. TT 4127-4128.
She clarified that qualified appraisers were tasked with determining the “highest and best use” of
a property if it were developed. TT 4141-4142.
When working on a potential conservation easement for TNGCLA, Dillon retained Brian Curry,
of Cushman & Wakefield, who valued the driving range on the property at between $27-28
million in 2014. PX 944; TT 2578-2580. On March 12, 2015, Cushman & Wakefield sent an
appraisal of the TNGCLA driving range portion of the property that valued it at $25 million as of
December 26, 2014; the appraisal also valued the entire TNGCLA property, before any potential
conservation easement, at $107 million. PX 1464; TT 2598-2603. Although Dillon could not
recall exactly with whom at the Trump Organization she shared this valuation, she knows it
would have gone to McConney, as he “would have needed it.” TT 2608-2611. Further, email
communications demonstrate ongoing discussions between Dillon, Weisselberg, and Trump, Jr.
about the potential conservation easement on TNGCLA. PX 1412; TT 4142-4146.
Notwithstanding, the 2015 supporting data and accompanying SFC valued TNGCLA at over
$140 million. PX 731; TT 2611-2623.
These are just a few choice excerpts of the many instances of Trump falsifying business records on a massive scale. For more, see https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2024/02/Judge-Engoron-ruling-in-Trump-New-York-civil-fraud-case.pdf
As noted above, in a “stand-alone § 63(12) claim.” plaintiff need only prove that defendants used false statements in business.
1-25 of 46
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues Yup, never repaid a penny of the loans, therefore everyone got screwed, right?
Strictgram · 70-79, C
@ElwoodBlues Totally bogus charges. Looks like you have time on your hands. Only leftist cretins believe Trump is guilty of fraud or anything else Prosecutor and judge are biased, corrupt leftists. Certain to be overturned.
CorvusBlackthorne · 100+, M
@ElwoodBlues As you can see, @sunsporter1649 is illiterate.
@Strictgram I think you will find that is not the case in the slightest, and at that time, I would recommend you find a capable psychotherapist to deal with the trauma of being on the wrong side of history.
@Strictgram I think you will find that is not the case in the slightest, and at that time, I would recommend you find a capable psychotherapist to deal with the trauma of being on the wrong side of history.
ElwoodBlues · M
@Strictgram LOL!!! you say
Hey dumbass, you've proved you didn't read any of it, just like dumbass ijit sunstroke!!!
Totally bogus charges.
Dumbass, those weren't the charges, ROTFL!!!Hey dumbass, you've proved you didn't read any of it, just like dumbass ijit sunstroke!!!
Strictgram · 70-79, C
@ElwoodBlues You're right. I won't waste my time reading your nonsense. The verdict will be overturned. Care to wager?
CorvusBlackthorne · 100+, M
@Strictgram How do you know it to be nonsense if you will not read it? Are you psychic?
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ElwoodBlues · M
@Strictgram claims
(1)The I posted evidence contains statements from MULTIPLE bank & insurance officers saying they would not have made the loans had they not been deceived.
(2) The law in question, NY Executive Law EXC § 63(12) doesn't require non-payment of loans, it only requires repeated falsification of business records. It's been on the books since the 1960s.
(3) What kind of IDIOT argues against laws and evidence she hasn't even read?? Are you making a special effort to appear particularly stupid??
They were repaid with interest and testified for Trump.
MORE proof you didn't read what I posted! Your ignorance is so entertaining LOL!!!(1)The I posted evidence contains statements from MULTIPLE bank & insurance officers saying they would not have made the loans had they not been deceived.
(2) The law in question, NY Executive Law EXC § 63(12) doesn't require non-payment of loans, it only requires repeated falsification of business records. It's been on the books since the 1960s.
(3) What kind of IDIOT argues against laws and evidence she hasn't even read?? Are you making a special effort to appear particularly stupid??
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@Strictgram President Trump should have beat up a cop, assaulted people on the subway, murdered somebody, or smashed in store windows, then he would have been praised and out on the street in an hour
ElwoodBlues · M
@Strictgram Your ignorance is so entertaining LOL!!! BTW, I very much look forward to Trump winning the repug nomination and then dragging your party down the drain.
(1)The I posted evidence contains statements from MULTIPLE bank & insurance officers saying they would not have made the loans had they not been deceived.
(2) The law in question, NY Executive Law EXC § 63(12) doesn't require non-payment of loans, it only requires repeated falsification of business records. It's been on the books since the 1960s.
(3) What kind of IDIOT argues against laws and evidence she hasn't even read?? Are you making a special effort to appear particularly stupid??
(1)The I posted evidence contains statements from MULTIPLE bank & insurance officers saying they would not have made the loans had they not been deceived.
(2) The law in question, NY Executive Law EXC § 63(12) doesn't require non-payment of loans, it only requires repeated falsification of business records. It's been on the books since the 1960s.
(3) What kind of IDIOT argues against laws and evidence she hasn't even read?? Are you making a special effort to appear particularly stupid??
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues Since when do left-wing nut-job marxists like you begin following the law?
CorvusBlackthorne · 100+, M
@sunsporter1649 So says the elderly dementia patient who follows the man who wishes to defund the FBI because they investigated his crimes.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@CorvusBlackthorne Is that the same fbir that goes around arresting parents at school board meetings, or the fbir that arrests parents defending their children from assault?
ElwoodBlues · M
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
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CorvusBlackthorne · 100+, M
@sunsporter1649
Is that the same fbir that goes around arresting parents at school board meetings...
On what charges? You fail to mention....or the fbir that arrests parents defending their children from assault?
For clarification, everyone, our friend is referring to the gentleman who physically assaulted a senior citizen for shouting at people.
ElwoodBlues · M
@sunsporter1649 Yes, the FBI also arrested a pastor in his own home, imagine that!! A pastor in Round Rock TX of all people!! How terrible!! Well, he was distributing child porn, but if we ignore that fact it can sound pretty horrifying!!
Oh, gosh, the FBI arrested ANOTHER pastor, this time in Toledo Ohio, for recruiting, enticing and transporting people the men knew were under 18 to engage in sex acts for pay. Again, it we omit key facts it can sound as if the FBI were way off base.
And they arrested a Leader of La Luz del Mundo church in LA! And a pastor on Long Island!! Gosh, what is the world coming to when the FBI arrests so many in clerical positions???
So your only real criticism of the FBI is that they collected evidence of crimes committed by your orange god. ROTFL!!!
Oh, gosh, the FBI arrested ANOTHER pastor, this time in Toledo Ohio, for recruiting, enticing and transporting people the men knew were under 18 to engage in sex acts for pay. Again, it we omit key facts it can sound as if the FBI were way off base.
And they arrested a Leader of La Luz del Mundo church in LA! And a pastor on Long Island!! Gosh, what is the world coming to when the FBI arrests so many in clerical positions???
So your only real criticism of the FBI is that they collected evidence of crimes committed by your orange god. ROTFL!!!
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues They find hunters laptop yet?
CorvusBlackthorne · 100+, M
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@CorvusBlackthorne Look up the 8th Amendment to The Constitution
1-25 of 46