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Are our government's complicit in a coming genocide?

I really want to be wrong but I fear that I am not.

I started off predicting that tens of thousands would die in Gaza. I really hate to say that but think it will be in the hundreds of thousands. All the signs are that Israel is trying to make Gaza so insufferable that nobody who stays can survive. They want Egypt to open its border and the longer it doesn't, they will try and blame them for the deaths.

The Palestinians have the name 'Nakba' (I believe it means catastrophe in English) for when 700,000 were forced to leave their homes and move to the fringes of Israel in 1948. They are already referring to this as the second Nakba.

The IDF is trying to destroy Hamas but their method for doing so is to eradicate (by death or relocation) all the Palestinians from the Gaza Strip. Everything points to this. The decision to tell Palestinians to leave the northern half of Gaza, the diplomatic pressure on Egypt, and the dehumanising language that regards all Palestinians as enemy combatants. The cutting off of all power and food. The Zionist project has wanted a Jewish-only state for some time and they are using the attack by Hamas as an excuse to do just that. Unless Western governments stop them, I think that this will happen.

Hamas deserve condemnation for their disgusting attack on Israeli civilians, however, this is not a case of both sides being the same. You can simultaneously condemn the Hamas attack and also stand against a tragedy that is literally two orders of magnitude greater. I can hate Saddam Hussain and also disagree with the invasion of Iraq.

Is violence committed by a Western-backed state more morally acceptable than what Hamas did? Do we really value all lives the same?

I'm going to bed now but I will probably reply tomorrow.

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basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M Best Comment

I take the Lemkin Institute on Genocide Prevention very seriously. They have warned there's a high risk for an active genocide in Gaza.

They've warned the same with Azerbaijan's actions toward Armenians.

I wish people would listen to them, because they're actually qualified in this field.

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basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M

@EdwinDrood I have it to you, you troglodyte. You're arguing that the Lemkin Institute knows less about you on what genocide is? You some rando troll on a niche social media forum?

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GlitterEater · 36-40, F

The US sent another carrier strike group to ensure the rest of the world can do nothing but watch in horror. So fucking gross.

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whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow See their we disagree. I see Israel as Americas get out of jail free card in the Middle East. If Iran "goes too far" it wont be America that takes them out. It will be Israel, giving the US plausable deniability. And thats why America wont force Israel off the field now..If Israel quits they will get everything they want from Hamas first..😷

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@whowasthatmaskedman Well first off it seems the claim Iran was behind this latest fight is looking more and more to be bullshit.

And even if that were true it would be conventional weapons. There is no scenario where a nuclear exchange ends at Iran or anywhere else for that matter.

And Bibi and the US government are alot of things but suicidal is not one of them.

Furthermore DOD has openly stated even a conventional war with Iran would be a nightmare scenario and best case scenario would be another 20 year long stalemate. So most of the posturing is just that, posturing.

What is more worrying is Biden effectively has ordered the US State Department to pour gasoline on the fire and has specifically forbidden them from de-escalating.

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I am sure there is a connection. But money passes between so many groups I am guessing, the Saudis and Yemen also dropped some coins in the cup...But there is plenty of hate to go around..😷

Ynotisay · M

It's interesting that bring up the nakba. There were something like 15,000 Arabs killed and at the end, Israel took over like 25 percent more land than the UN had determined for them. So this kind of thing is baked in to the Israeli cake.

PhilDeep · 51-55, M

When we look at political decisions, it seems deaths only matter based on national interest. I don't believe in moral high grounds. Humans seem to have so much brutality in their nature and at times like this the repeated justifications for killing ordinary people, on either side (though don't even think about mentioning complete inequality in numbers or weapons), just shows how politicians get away with their "reasons". They are supported and propped up by arseholes who think just like them. Without empathy. Just my opinions.

BohemianBoo · M

Absolutely. Israel is only able to continue the genocide because America funds it.

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Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@EdwinDrood This is such a brazenly disingenuous argument that I don't need to respond.

CrystalSkull · F

I don’t know. There are points that both sides have made that are valid and I can’t say I choose either. I just feel terrible about all the innocent civilians on any side. It also depends on what literature one reads and news channels one watches. There are different narratives. It’s very complicated and I have to ask what’s the big reason behind all this? A world war over a small territory like that? What’s the real back story. I’m not qualified an enough to know anything about the real reasons. It’s frightening and I can’t imagine the suffering for all. I’m sorry for all the innocent civilians.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@CrystalSkull It's not about my media diet (which is varied) but about judging a situation by actions and not words. All Israel's actions point in one direction.

CrystalSkull · F

@Burnley123 I wasn’t specifically pointing at “your” media. I was making a general comment about press. I’m not disagreeing with what you say or agreeing. What I’m asking what is the real reason. For all of this. Doesn’t make sense to me that the entire world should be in uproar over a strip of land that small. Yes the human lives is a travesty, I’m not denying that, but this kind of retaliation does not happen in other parts of the world. Why.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@CrystalSkull We are talking about 2.1 million people in Gaza alone and many more Palestinians throughout Israel.

It's also the world's longest running military occupation. It falls on religious and political fault lines and those between the first and the third world.

For Arabic Muslims, it's analogy for how they feel treated by the west. For Zionist Jews, it's an analogy for something else For the left, it's a striking example of western imperialism. And so on.

firefall · 61-69, M

[quote] Do we really value all lives the same?[/quote] of course we dont, for any value of 'we' at all. Noone does, en masse, it's a struggle for any individual to really do that (well except for psychopaths where value equals zero).

I think you're right, I hadnt considered the longer term plan by the Israeli government, but this is disturbingly logical. Worse than that, I can't see what will actually stop them.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@firefall I did mean it as a rhetorical question. My main point in asking that was to illustrate that the western media and Israel especially do not value Palestinian lives the same. People who are 'not like us.' It's implied everywhere in this discourse.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@firefall With the speed that they've enacted this plan, it's pretty obvious that they were holding it in their back pocket. Waiting for the day Hamas did something bad enough to give them cover.

Ynotisay · M

@Burnley123 I think you're right. An excuse is what they needed. And they pushed and pushed until they got it.

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SW-User

Yes I've been thinking that too. This country is so hooked on some guy from 2000 years ago it makes me sick.

whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M

@SW-User A message there for many Americans...😷

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

I learned my country can be complicit in genocide when then General and now Senator Romeo Dallaire was given like 500 peacekeepers to stop the Rwandan genocide and all requests for backup were ignored.

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RedBaron · M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow If you read the linked story, you will see that Canada had an atrocious history with immigration restrictions from roughly 1919-1945 and was no more helpful to European refugees than the US was.

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@RedBaron Oh absolutely. No disputing that. We also turned away Sikhs when they were being killed by the Indian government which is coming up again lately with the Indian government murdering people on Canadian soil.

But I think we all have that one event where you learn that your country's claims of being morally superior is exposed as total horseshit.

RedBaron · M

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Most have more than one.

Abstraction · 61-69, M

Agree. They have obviously read the outrage over the attack and decided it gives them valid excuse to remove Gaza.

SammyJo · 51-55, F

The language used all points to this and, yes, I agree. I think they're trying to put a little bit of a political spin on things - the whole 'we'll give you 24 hrs to clear the way...', I think, if they had their own way they'd have just hit it without any warning.

It's tough; I hate any form of terrorism...and I dislike little guys been put upon....I'm swinging around all sides, depending on my emotions.

Starcrossed · 41-45, F

I couldn't agree with you more and it makes me so sad.

Deceased · M

Gaza has been an experiment in profound human suffering, and the still widely pushed narrative is that Palestinians should just lay down and die already. I caught a clip of my local news last night and the coverage was... atrocious to say the least.

fanuc2013 · 51-55, F

I don't blame Israel one bit! They have been living with terrorist attacks for many years, just not of this magnitude. Maybe this will finally solve the problem.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@fanuc2013 By ethnically cleansing two million people?

Moon3624 · 18-21, F

@fanuc2013 @Burnley123
“I don’t blame Israel one bit “
The Israeli military crimes aside ,
what about the terrorist attacks done by Israeli settlers protected by their police as they raid Palestinian homes and places of worship or rampage Palestinian villages killing and injuring Palestinians in the process ?

I’m sure this elderly Palestinian man is a terrorist
Btw this is from 8 years ago :
[media=https://youtu.be/TVDwtgtT1Nk]

You have Harvard and endless human right organizations such as amnesty
Talking about the endless list of occupation and violence crimes done to Palestinians for decades
And you don’t blame Israel one bit?
😂 stuff that hypocrisy up your arse

RedBaron · M

A big question is why haven’t Arab states like Egypt and Saudi Arabia done anything to help Palestinians?

It appears that they don’t care what happens in Gaza.

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RedBaron · M

@Burnley123 That’s nice.

Just because you don’t acknowledge it doesn’t mean you’re not biased.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@RedBaron You are the one projecting...

Pitchblue

This is another land grab by Israel. If a million or more people go to Egypt that will destabalize the country. The US is afraid that Egypt and other surrounding countries can shut off their access to the Persian Gulf.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

If this is legit, I take no pleasure in being right.

A leaked govt paper recommended a suggestion of full depopulation of Gaza.

https://similarworlds.com/countries/israel/4858288-Expel-all-Palestinians-from-Gaza-recommends-Israeli-govt

PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M

@Burnley123 They are reporting this all over the news here so it is pretty likely legit.

And if they try it things could get very gruesome because Egypt is not likely to play along.

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Northwest · M

https://similarworlds.com/middle-east/4846046-Beneath-the-Embrace-There-Is-Tension-Brewing-Between-Biden

lumberjackslam · 41-45, M

You seem to be jumping to conclusions here.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@lumberjackslam I will take no pleasure in being proven correct.

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