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Conservatives don't understand Marx

Conservatives and Neo - liberals are more likely to caricature and make fun of Karl Marx’s writings and beliefs than offer serious rebuttals to his many ideas. Why? Because Marx’s insights expose deep inconsistencies in cherished right-wing doctrines.

If you want to anger a conservative, just try arguing that Karl Marx might have something worth saying. Or worse, suggest that a man who wrote numerous volumes on everything from German philosophy to the standard assumptions of classical political economy might have a more nuanced theory than “rich people bad, poor people good.”

Yet several decades after the Cold War, plenty of right-wing pundits still can’t be bothered to offer rebuttals to Marx that go beyond glib denunciations. Jordan Peterson has described Marxism as an evil theory and made his name bashing “postmodern neo-Marxism,” despite admitting during one debate that he hasn’t read much more than the Communist Manifesto in the past few decades.

In his book "Don’t Burn This Book" Dave Rubin lumps in socialism with Nazism and fascism by claiming Benito Mussolini was “raised on Karl Marx’s Das Kapital” — ignoring Il Duce’s later efforts to imprison and silence Marxists and other “enemies of the nation.” And most recently, Ben Shapiro’s "How To Destroy America in Three Easy Steps" recycles old tropes about the “nonsense” of Marx’s labor theory of value, while ignoring the irony of praising John Locke for “correctly pointing out that ownership of property is merely an extension of the idea of ownership of your labor; when we remove something from the state of nature and mix our labor with it and join something of our own to it, we thereby make that property our own.”

This tendency to criticize Marx without actually engaging his ideas is especially rich considering Peterson, Rubin, and Shapiro endlessly parrot clichés about the importance of hard work and spirited debate. An easy way to dismiss them would be to just insist they live up to those lofty standards in between appearances on PragerU.

I suggest that conservatives avoid seriously dealing with Marx’s work not just because he was critical of capitalism, wrote some polemical things about religion, or was suspicious of class hierarchy. It is because Marx’s writings reveal deep inconsistences in cherished conservative doctrines.

A go-to argument of conservatives is to dismiss Marx’s “theory of human nature”: either Marx was dangerously naive about the human capacity for evil and selfishness — which shows why his ideal classless society turned out to be such a bust in practice — or he believed that there was no human nature, that we are infinitely plastic beings that could be made and remade by a sufficiently rational and powerful state committed to utopian planning.

Both of these claims are nonsensical. From his early ruminations about our “species being” determined by nature, to his later psychological ruminations about how our desire for recognition and status spurs “commodity fetishism,” Marx was neither utopian nor naive about our potential for hypocrisy, cruelty, and hedonism. Where Marx was innovative was in showing how the historical and economic conditions around us play a major role in shaping our sense of self and behavior.

This doesn’t mean we are purely determined by historical context. But Marx argued that the historical and economic conditions we’re born into provide the starting point we all must navigate. As he put it in The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon, “men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past.”

Parts of this argument should actually appeal to many conservatives. From Edmund Burke to Roger Scruton, a common right-wing complaint has been that radicals portray humans as ahistorical beings that can be understood purely as atomized individuals. Instead, they stressed, every human is embedded in layers of community, with hallowed traditions and morals shaped through history and institutions, including churches and temples, nations, and even “Western civilization.” These “little brigades” affect how we think of ourselves and what we believe.

Conservatives often insisted that ignoring the importance of these historical communities could only lead to disaster. Marx would certainly agree. But he would add that we are also embedded in a historically distinct economic system that profoundly shapes who we are and what we believe.

It’s on this point that many of the same conservative commentators that insist on applying a historical and institutional lens to understand human behavior and communities become ahistoricists. They insist that capitalism simply flows from human nature, that it has always been around and therefore always must be, and that any effort to change it can only yield disaster, as surely as demanding fish ride bicycles
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redredred · M
You write just like Marx. You go on and on and on and never make any sense. Marx was an idiot who never supported his family, through his domestic servant out of the house after he impregnated her and died a fool.

Sho me one example where the “state has withered away”

Marxist are dilettantes who can’t make it on their own and imagine a Marxist state where they become the commissar of poetry and interpretive dance and it falls to others to muck out the stables. 🤣
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@redredred Slander Marx to hide the fact you never read any of his work. Poison the well and call it done.
redredred · M
First of, it isn’t slander if it’s in writing (then it’s libel) or if it’s the truth (so that’s not libel) so you’re wrong in two counts. Further, The twentieth century was a hundred-year long experiment in Marxism and it resulted in a hundred million civilians being murdered by their own socialist governments. Is there much further study needed to come to a reasonable conclusion?

And for the record I read as much of Marx as I could stand in my Econ degree. He’s a putz.@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
@redredred [quote]First of[c=BF0000]f[/c], it isn’t slander if it’s in writing (then it’s libel)...[/quote]
Fixed your spelling. But yeah, you're guilty of libel, not slander.
[quote]And for the record I read as much of Marx as I could stand in my Econ degree. He’s a putz.[/quote]
Ah, but you very clearly did not retain it.
redredred · M
@LordShadowfire when you pick on spelling, you’ve lost the debate. And yes, I retained all of the Marxian nonsense I need to understand why old Karl was a putz. Ever seen a state wither away?
Gloomy · F
@redredred He barely outlined communism and that would belong to his more philosophical work not his analysis of the capitalist mode of production.
You are just a cringe libertarian
redredred · M
@Gloomy And you’re a baby girl who wants a state to be her nanny. Capitalism is the only fair, just economic method ever devised. ALL others involve taking without recompense from those who produce.
Gloomy · F
@redredred People are fucked over and over by capitalism. Investors selling out businesses with thousands losing their jobs while the deal makes few very rich, managers earning 60 times more than their workers, goods being produced cheap and by slave labor in the third world and sold much more expensive in the west, socialised losses and privatized gains, ....

Very fair sure sure 😂
@redredred thinks that because anybody can fuck over anybody, that makes it fair. Never mind that the people who already have the money do the screwing in capitalistic systems, every single time. @Gloomy
redredred · M
@LordShadowfire Cornelius Vanderbilt was once about the richest man in the world. His great-granddaughter was reduced to lending her name to cheesy designer jeans to make ends meet. The rich make their fortunes, their children and grand children squander it. It’s the form of re-distribution that actually works. Typically fortunes last 3 or 4 generations.
@redredred Congrats on finding a single anecdote. This is total bullshit. Pretty much every billionaire minus a few in tech can trace their family fortune back to the robber barons either by blood or marriage. Do you fact check anything?
redredred · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Goodluck supporting your bogus claim which, I note isn’t backed up with any examples.
@redredred Good luck figuring out what to do with your life when you finally figure out that the burden of proof is on you, and you realize you've been making a complete jackass of yourself on the internet for years.
@redredred Not bogus. It is also backed by a peer review study proving the only two relevant factors in acquiring wealth is being born into wealth and dumb luck. So exactly the same as the feudal period.
redredred · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Right, modern capitalism is indistinguishable from feudal Europe. Laboring under that delusion might explain why you’re so poor in competing.
@redredred And back to your usual strawman.
@redredred And a guy who believes capitalism is a magical utopia despite 350 years proving the exact opposite calling me delusional is pretty funny.
@redredred And as always you make baseless assumptions about me.
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redredred · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow 350 years ago your ancestors were dying at 35, living on porridge and never saw a silver coin. The only way their masters got rich was to steal from other masters. Under capitalism one gets wealthy by meeting other people’s needs and wants.

But your buddy Marx, despite 120 years of failure knows better, right?
@redredred I see you failed history class too.
@redredred 120 years of failure according to you. And your credibility is about the same as Mike Lindell only poorer.
Guitarman123 · 31-35, M
@redredred oh look, another one who hasn't read a syllable of marxs works
redredred · M
@Guitarman123 I have, that’s how I know people who fell for his bullshit haven’t got the brains of my beagle.
Marx has the distinction of a 100 % failure rate.
@redredred Where do you want me to send your plane ticket?