Newsflash: Trump Did Not Achieve Middle East Peace

@MistyCee
Yes, it made things worse, specifically for the parties directly involved in the Conflict: the Palestinians and Israelis.

There were winners: the Evangelicals and the Orthodox Jews, but for different reasons.

The Evangelicals believe that an Israeli total takeover, is a pre-requisite to the second coming of Christ, where all humans, past and present, will be tossed in hell, with the exception of those who accept Christ, and among the latter, you have 144,000 Jews, 12K each from each of the 12 biblical tribes (I am not sure if Kushner can trace his lineage to one of them, otherwise, he is surely fucked).

The Orthodox want to re-create Judea and Samaria, and re-build the Temple, also in preparation of the second coming of the Messiah, but this one is not going to fuck everyone over, but will ensure Jews rule the universe.

Setting that aside for a moment, and in the real world, the only thing that does, is increase violence, and eliminate the possibility of a peaceful solution. Instead, the agreement specifically prescribes an attrition/replacement plan, to insure a Palestinian-free West Bank.

The West Bank replacement plan, is not something the current Israeli government wants. Netanyahu, on the other hand, was a primary driver of the plan. Israelis are just about as polarized as we are, with a highly educated, mostly left-wing group, and a not so well educated (mostly) group of religious zealots, each with different goals for the country.

@MistyCee moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem did not make peace more likely, it may have done exactly the opposite, it rubbed salt into the Palestinian wounds, making an establishment of a Palestinian state less likely. Other countries either decided not to move theirs or moved them and are now moving back out, e.g. I believe, Australia just did that very thing.

@samueltyler2 It certainly removes even the appearance of us being "neutral", not that *that* was ever more than a thin veneer.

@SomeMichGuy Look at my comment above to the poster It's too long to type out, and no i didn't btw.

@Axelerator
You had a point? Sorry, I thought you were posturing. Having read your rant, yes, you're posturing.

Let's move the dial to the 21st Century. Yes, people want peace and that includes the countries involved, especially the US. And yes, the agreement the US brokered between Israel and Lebanon IS a huge deal. It literally stopped a war.

If you don't want to take my comment to MistyC for granted, you should probably research the subject on your own, and instead of posturing fluff, you may want to discuss specific issues, not 'they've been fighting for years'.

@Axelerator


Your comment, since it doesn't even remotely comprehend how we helped broker the agreement between Sadat & Begin--in a one-write process!--shows how little grounded in the *actual* history your remarks are.

We have tried to help where possible, cajole when needed, etc.

Carter succeeded and didn't want
recognition, just peace.

When Arafat still was around/head of the PLO, the Palestinians were offered the best deal they were ever likely to get...and they turned it down. At that point, it really seemed as though that confirmed that the Palestinian leadership simply would never accept any negotiated settlement, and that their years of complaining abput peace truly were empty words. I was astonished, saddened, and upset thst they were so...intransigent and unable/unwilling to transition from a group of fighters to a group of administrators having to meet to deal with water, waste, roads, electricity, housing...

I should probably see what Hanan(?sp) Ashrawi had to say about it, but it seemed as though a great opportunity was passed up, and that the tenor of Israeli-Palestianian interactions hardened--perhaps I should add "even further"--from the Israeli side.

While a series of powers have intervened in the Near & Middle East for millennia, you need to have a solid background, and getting basic geographic facts wrong (Israel & Palestine are/were never in Asia Minor) doesn't help your argument.

@OggggO Morocco was one of the countries involved, but the initial accord was between Israel and the UAE/Bahrain (Bahrain does whatever the UAE tells it to).

However, in Morocco's case, just as it was with the UAE case, it was a mere formality. The relationship between Morocco and Israel has been more than friendly for decades, and Israelis, of Moroccom descent, are some of the wealthiest Israelis, and maintain homes and businesses in both countries, and are part of the upper echelon of Israeli and Moroccon societies. A bunch of them I interacted with in the tech industry, and when I lived in Israel.

@Northwest Yeah, I knew they were already on good terms, and that it just made official what was already a stable status quo. I just didn't know there were any other countries involved.

@OggggO Morocco is a "bonus" if you will. The agreement gave an excuse to Morocco to formally recognize what was information, a few months after the agreement between the UAE/Bahrain and Israel was signed.

The UAE's ruler wants an anti-Iran pact, and a joint Israeli-UAE overwhelming military force, to potentially attack Iran. That's also Netanyahu's wet dream. The current Israeli government, while concerned about Iran's Mullah's plans, does not want war, but would still love to openly sell Israeli technology and agricultural products, into the ultra spendy UAE/Gulf markets.