Conservative vs Liberal

Does it really matter? As a Southern Conservative white male, I'm persecuted on a daily basis. Yet, one to one, no one on either side seems to want to converse in a civil manner about their ideals and beliefs. So what if we disagree? Where is it written that we have to hate one another for it?

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Ducky · 31-35, F

As a moderate or a centrist or whatever you want to call me, I personally think it’s more accurate to say “conservative vs, [u]leftist[/u]”, not liberal. In my personal opinion, liberalism is no longer a strictly left-wing ideology. When you got people from the right advocating for things like free speech more than people from the left who are actively trying to silence it, that just proves my point. Most conservatives these days [b]are[/b] liberals, whether they want to admit it or not. Most leftists these days? There is nothing liberal about them. The political spectrum is not that black and white anymore. There’s still plenty of valid conservative vs. actual liberal arguments to be found, but again, liberalism is not strictly left-wing anymore.

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LamontCranston · M

@strongbow Actually, i disagree with you and agree with @Ducky. "Liberal" should and does, for people who understand the term, relates to those who believe in and stand up for enlightenment/ western civilzation values. It does not mean "prgressive" or "leftist", some of whom have highjacked the term.
Respectfully, if you re-read Ducky's comment, you may see that it is perceptive.
One of the commenters in this stream, @MalteseFalconPunch is one of those grievance lefties, no matter what he pretends.

Ducky · 31-35, F

@strongbow I got nothing to say to you
@LamontCranston I strongly implore you to do the same.

Elessar · 26-30, M

@Ducky The right that is literally banning books, staging coups, obstructing justice and planting radicalized supreme court judges hellbent into revoking long acquired rights while claiming to be the persecuted ones?

Liberalism has always been a centre(-right) thing no matter how f*cked the American overton window is. And there's absolutely nothing "moderate" or "centrist" in this alignment of yours.

Ducky · 31-35, F

@Elessar I have nothing to say to you

Elessar · 26-30, M

@Ducky Yeah, no wonder.

SW-User

@Elessar It also makes little sense to suggest that leftists are "claiming" the label "liberal". Most leftists I know despise the term "liberal" and often insultingly refer to moderate Democrats like Obama and his supporters as "libs". They say that liberals are Clinton/Obama types who essentially continued the imperialist foreign policy of Bush, did nothing to address over-incarceration (and have a legacy of being destructively "tough no crime"), and continued the broadly unequal capitalist American project. I'm not saying I agree wholeheartedly with these more extreme leftists, especially since I'm not so much on board with socialism and think that capitalism is a necessary evil that can be strongly regulated without resorting to full-on socialism. Nonetheless, "liberal" encompasses a broad center-left to center-right position that leftists often reject. Claiming that they are co-opting the term doesn't square with reality.

It also doesn't make much sense that American conservatives are broadly liberal. Some believe in liberal principles, though American conservatism is becoming increasingly disenchanted with democracy and liberalism, which go hand in hand. Democracy used to be something liberal that both the left and the right supported, but the right is subverting and undermining elections and attempting to restrict voter access. It also isn't particularly liberal to latch onto a strong-man leader. That kind of populism is something traditional liberals rejected. Libertarianism is becoming increasingly unpopular on the right due to its failures: the Christian rights seeks to insert more religion into the government and libertarianism often opposes just that. Libertarianism alone could not have undone Roe vs. Wade. The right is realizing that a stronger state can achieve many of their long term goals. And certainly, the recent rash of book bannings is anything but liberal and pro-free speech. Not saying that the left is perfect on this record either: but in some ways, the right is simply adopting the "safe space" language of the progressives; they want to be rid of ideas they find unpleasant (that LGBT should be accorded the same respect as heterosexuals, that American has a long racist history, that black Americans are the poorest demographic due to past structural inequalities, etc.)

Elessar · 26-30, M

@SW-User I consistently bang my head against the stone that occupies the same spot in (actual) far-leftists/tankies on here nearly on a daily basis, so I know how they are made lol.

This nonsense that literally everyone one inch left from a MAGA fascist(oid) by the so called "enlightened center" (i.e. rightwingers in the closet) is just one way to not admit you support the (far/)right. I refuse to believe that anyone who has an internet access legitimately doesn't know the distinction between "liberal", "libertarian", "leftist", "social-democrat", "socialist" and "communist", or even that they legitimately (and not conveniently) believe that all these groups are equally distant from the(ir perceived) "center" and just diametrically opposed to the far-right.

[quote]American conservatism is becoming increasingly disenchanted with democracy and liberalism[/quote]
This has been happening for quite a long while I'd say.

[quote]The right is realizing that a stronger state can achieve many of their long term goals[/quote]
And also this. They've always known, they just don't need to pretend they're for a "small government" anymore. Libertarians have been [i]electoral fodder[/i], but ultimately won't be represented by the party that just needed them for their votes.

Agreed with the rest. I'm not sure if they actually have a stance against LGBT, or if they do so just to get the votes of the homophobic/ultra-religious layer of society.

SW-User

[quote]They've always known, they just don't need to pretend they're for a "small government" anymore. Libertarians have been electoral fodder, but ultimately won't be represented by the party that just needed them for their votes.[/quote]

👍👍👍

@Elessar