I'm a centrist so both sides of the political spectrum hate me, go figure.

@TinyViolins I see only one side staging (failing) coups, abusing a majority in the SC to overturn rights obtained 50 years ago and pushing religious/conservative agendas doing do, stealing top-secret documents and potentially selling them to the highest bidders.

I've absolutely no idea how anyone can even look at the present political landscape and come up with "meh, both sides are exactly the same"

@Elessar Well I never said both sides were the same. It baffles me that people actually believe that about centrists since none of the centrists that I know and follow are militantly in the middle. I don't doubt that some people are like, but even then I'd wager that it's most likely referring to how hypocritical and disingenuous the political elites are.

The reason I'm a centrist is because the minute you disagree with the left or the right, even if you agree with them on everything else, they will brand you an enemy and a traitor, they will undermine and mock you, and they will eventually invalidate and alienate you. We're not centrists because we're some sanctimonious snobs. Most of my political beliefs fall in line with what liberals rally around. But I identify as a centrist because there's no room for disagreement among liberals.

That's what I mean by political extremism. When both sides are so rigidly dogmatic that they won't allow for heterodoxical ideas. When they refuse to treat other people as individuals and instead characterize them as a living stereotype. Discriminating against others by their political orientation has become not only an acceptable form of bigotry, but a prejudice that is actually encouraged.

It's toxic, it's destructive, and it's wrong. Anger and hatred only breeds more anger and hatred. A nation divided against itself will not stand. So even if I do mostly agree with liberals, I refuse to align myself with people who seek to drive division by attacking and maligning others.

I don't condone what people on the far right are doing to further divide this nation. It's the biggest national security threat the US is facing. But I also don't condone having all right wing people be guilty by association for the actions of small number. I strongly believe a lot of people are skewing towards the right in no small part because of how vicious liberals online can be . A clown like Trump didn't win in 2016 because he's a great politician. He won because people are fed up with the self-righteous fanaticism of the left and they saw an assh*le like him to be the best shot at derailing them.

Anger and hatred only breeds more anger and hatred.

@TinyViolins I get your point, I don't disagree with (most of) this.

But I don't think the "centrists" rallying behind this post have anything to do with your position. To quote some of their thoughts, from this very thread:

@Elessar Those quotes are not necessarily wrong from my point of view, they're just missing context. It sounds worse than it actually is.

The point I think he's making is that most American news outlets these days willfully omit reporting on certain topics, ignore specific points of view, and cater to a niche audience. They've become so selective in what stories get covered that they're essentially propaganda.

Fox News and other right wing outlets are far more egregious about how much they're willing to bend to truth, but even the ones that seem more moderate are frequently engaged in reporting only one side of the issue. I'm not saying that these networks lie and fabricate their sources, but when they only tell half-truths, it's wise to hold judgement until you can dive deeper.

It's impossible to have a balanced information diet these days with even 2 or 3 sources of news. Given how much money they stand to make, audience capture dominates the mainstream media. Their incentives are to have a loyal audience, not necessarily an informed one.

While MAGA is definitely the slogan die-hard Trump cultists rally around, the notion of making America great is actually quite patriotic. Who wouldn't want to make their country great? It means uplifting everyone, even those that have historically been marginalized.

Not voting has been the strategy for third-party supporters for a long time. I don't necessarily agree with it, but the philosophy goes that by always choosing the lesser of two evils, you're tacitly condoning that it's okay for evil to reside within the political system.

Lobbyists and corporate money go towards Democrats as well as Republicans. Politicians that happily accept that money more often than not put the interests of their donors above the interests of the people. Look at the bank bailouts following the Great Recession as one example.

These politicians need our votes to survive, so by withholding your vote, you're trying to get them to work for you instead of the other way around. If you vote for them regardless, if they don't have to earn it, then they're just going to keep doing what they're doing, which is essentially nothing. We're still debating the same issues we've been debating for decades. Guns, abortion, immigration, taxes. It's like a broken record.

That last statement captures a lot of the disbelief former right wing or left wing people have as they move towards the center. You get attacked viciously by those in your tribe if you don't agree with the narrative du jour.

Like I said, centrists are not sanctimonious snobs. They're not moving to the middle as a form of enlightened virtue signaling, but in large part because they no longer feel welcome by those they formerly synced with. When it comes to politics, people treat traitors way worse than they treat their enemies.

Look at how bad someone like Tulsi Gabbard, who has Democratic policies up and down the board, endorsed Biden as well as some other Democratic candidates, and even served within the DNC for a period of time, but got branded a conservative simply for appearing on Fox News. Or how badly Liz Cheney has been hounded simply for refusing to bend to Trump's election lies.

It's not like people are suddenly changing their core beliefs. It's that new battle lines are drawn every day in a culture war that is fueled by a non-stop cycle of online outrage. If you fall on the wrong side of one of these lines, you basically get excommunicated

@TinyViolins News corps being owned by a handful of billionaires - a class that isn't exactly politically neutral and the class that benefits the most from ultra-capitalistic and socially regressive policies, wonder why the media is so biased.

A country that is the 1st economic and military power isn't great enough?

This is just fascistic jargon, it has absolutely nothing to do with patriotism, only nationalism. It is nothing more and nothing less than a coward way for saying they believe a fascistic regime is more functional than the democracy they live in and despise.

Above all, none of their actual policies - among which: outlawing abortions, cutting welfare for the poor (while increasingly bailing out their rich donors during crises), sabotaging democracy, contrasting science and at the same time shrinking the separation from church and state - uplifts anyone, let alone the marginalized.

Not at all, they need a relative majority of votes, they don't need a big turnout.

Withholding your vote you only make a tiny minority of extremist choose the fate of the country, nothing more and nothing less. If virtually only MAGA supporters go to the polls (because rest assured, they're hellbent into voting, whether you'll go or not), and everyone else stays at home, the only possible outcome is that they obtain a net majority in both the house and the senate, and the presidency, and lock themselves in power perpetually. There's literally no other possible outcome. If you believe they'll return power to the electors after having a chance to seize it indefinitely you're beyond naive, they've raised so many red flags already that they contrast even with the background color of the party.

I live outside of the U.S. and I'm observing from the outside a situation that my country went through first-hand exactly 100 years ago; even here "centrists" at the time essentially handed the country to Mussolini by refusing to take a stance against him. Actively promoting fascism or passively refusing to take a stance against it both lead to the very same outcome, as history has proven already and multiple times, therefore no surprise if people who have a bare understanding of how fragile democracy is will be at the very best suspicious towards you. And no surprise if far-rightwingers give you the very same treatment they give to anyone else that isn't strictly in their ranks, they won't make an exception for you only because you declare yourself "neutral". Hence the perceived "hate".

@Elessar To be clear, the idea of making America great is not related to MAGA. It's a general idea, not a rallying statement.

Military and economic might are a very narrow idea of greatness. Having a strong military and wealthy corporations don't necessarily translate into a great country since most people remain largely unaffected by all that.

Ideas of making America great can include having free or affordable healthcare, having wages where people don't need to work 2 or 3 jobs to survive, not being burdened by student loans or medical debt for most of your adult years, being able to afford a house, having better public transportation, cleaner air and water, reducing drug dependency and suicide. There's many possible ways to make a country great.

Though there is something to be said about your idea about politicians not needing large turnouts. That's why I said that I didn't necessarily agree as withholding your vote as a good strategy.

The truth is that elections in the US have become increasingly less competitive over the years as the two-party system tries to retain it's power. Years of gerrymandering, having closed primaries, corporate money flushing out grassroots efforts, and even a biased media make it so that a small number of people really get to decide who ends up in office.

Though I don't think the blame should fall on centrists for "handing" the elections over to crazy people when more often than not the crazy people already have competitive advantages over sane people.

For example, most states have a closed primary system, which means that only registered Democrats can vote in the Democratic primary to select the nominee, while the same is true for Republicans. So if you're not registered to vote with one of the two parties, you don't get to decide who ends up on the general ballot.

Third parties are too small for primaries and nominate their own candidates internally, but even then, the states they are running in are usually run by either a Democrat or a Republican majority, which has on repeated occasions altered the rules to make it harder for these third parties to even show up on the ballot.

There's essentially no competition, no room for alternative perspectives, no moderation. You have to either be a Democrat or a Republican to make your voice heard. And even if you try make yourself heard, between gerrymandering undermining your vote and corporations and news media drowning out your voice, the deck is already rigged against you. At least for certain down-ballot elections.

A lot of the centrists I follow are urging for political reform when it comes to elections so that everybody gets to participate and not feel like they're being forced to choose between two people they don't like. They're hoping to root out the evil from the political system instead of constantly choosing between it. I voted for Biden, but he wouldn't have even been in my top 5 choices from the Democratic primaries.

@TinyViolins I'm aware those are America's problem, at least sane America's problem, but nobody sane of mind would call fixing those "making America great". The only who'd use such a slogan are far-right nationalists. In America just like elsewhere.

Well, that's a perk of the first past the post and electoral college system, which isn't a new thing; if you want your voice heard register as any of those parties and vote for the primary. If the crazy people already have some competitive advantage, don't give them further by doing exactly what they're expecting from you: letting them be the only ones who choose the fate of the country. Doomerism is their weapon too, making you think that whether you vote for or against them would yield the same outcome.

A political reform (done right) would be good, but indeed in order to get more and more people to participate you need to actually participate in the first place.

@Elessar It's been used as election slogans for years before Trump, but I'll admit it's in bad taste now given how Trump basically ruined it.

It's beyond the Electoral College or FPTP. We're talking about the state and congressional levels mostly, since those are the ones that wield even broader powers than the President.

More than 40% of Americans are not registered with either party, and it's a number that's growing, so most Americans have no say about who ends up on these ballots they're expected to choose between. The 25-30% that remain staunchly Democrat or Republican do, so people feel like they are being held hostage politically-speaking.

It's like being stuck in a turf war between two rival gangs. Regardless of their policies, they both want power, and we get heckled for not wanting to give it to them. You could argue that Democratic policies are less bad, and I frequently do, but without having any leverage to discuss, to disagree, to dissent, the only option left is to disengage.

We're stuck in an abusive relationship with the two-party system, and people that mock us for pointing it out are trying to scare us by saying "Well, would you rather live on the street? Because that's what's going to happen if you leave this relationship"

@TinyViolins Such slogans have been pretty much bad taste for over one century now. Trump's is nothing new.

I'm no fan of either FPTP systems nor the electoral college, but by not voting "in protest" you're doing exactly what MAGA expects from you. Nothing more, and nothing less. You serve them the country in a plate of silver with the low turnout they're aiming to create.

Nothing impedes you from registering with either party even if you aren't aligned with it and vote for whatever candidate you prefer at the primary. Refusing to do so, refusing to vote and complaining about the choices serves only the purpose of those who want to take away even that choice.

No, it isn't. It doesn't solve anything, only makes Republicans get the low turnout they need. It's the political equivalent of cutting one's own d*ck to spite their wife.

@Elessar How is it in bad taste? What should the slogan say then, "Keep this country exactly the same" or "Make America worse"? If you're not aiming for improving the lives and expanding the rights of Americans, in other words, make America a great place to live, why should any American want to vote for you?

MAGA doesn't even believe in fair elections, so why should they care how I vote? They're off in conspiracy land where the outcome is already rigged and only a massive showing of votes for Trump and the "strong" Republicans that obsequiously follow him could change the outcome. Something that could only be decided in state primaries that I'm not even registered in.

And even then, I can only register with one party at a time. So if I decide to register and vote at the primary level, my options are to risk losing out on the Democratic candidate that I most agree with in order to vote for the Republican that I think is the sanest, or to vote for the Democratic candidate I agree with the most and risk having the craziest Republican show up on the ballot. It's a broken system.

In either case, MAGAs interests are so narrow that the smart thing would be trying to get me to vote for their specific candidate, instead of simply abstaining from voting for everyone else.

They only get hurt if they stood a chance to win in my state, but I live in a blue state anyway so my vote is completely unnecessary. They don't stand a chance of winning an electoral vote here. They might pick up some House votes, but only in districts that I can't even vote in because I don't reside in those counties. The Democrat is going to win in any election anyway because of the lack of competition, so my vote would be redundant at best. Biden got over 80% of the votes in my county anyway. It wasn't even close.

Somewhere around 85% of the districts in the US are noncompetitive like that, where one party is basically guaranteed to win regardless due to gerrymandering and closed primaries.

So then what does solve the problem? Picking a party that won't listen to me or a party that won't listen to me? What kind of options are those?

Either way, you're assuming that Republicans are out to take away my rights. I don't personally lose anything by having a Republican win compared to if a Democrat wins. And I'm saying this as a racial minority. The racism you fanatics keep talking about doesn't exist in my life, no matter how far into the rural countryside I go.

Fear-mongering is a part of the reason to abstain from politics altogether. Republicans say that if Democrats win, the country will become a communist hellhole. Democrats say that if Republicans win, it'll become a fascist ethnostate. But the reality is that no matter who wins, the rich get richer and the poor get nothing.

What's so bad about wanting a political system that works for the people instead of working for the elite?

@TinyViolins Like, addressing the individual issues rather than hiding behind a blatant nationalist motto, for instance?

Simply because no matter what they believe or shout, they need to take control of the govt. Not accepting the outcome of an election won't get them (yet?) presidency, house seats and senate seats.

You can still pick one of the two, and vote for what you perceive as the best candidate within one of those. Much better than standing still and expecting things to get magically sorted out on their own or by others for sure.

Not at all, they know their policies and propaganda won't convince more than a 30-40% of the nation, they would never have a majority that way. Having a significant percentage of "neutral" non-voters, convinced that they should abstain from voting is exactly how they secure a relative majority. This strategy is as old as democracy itself, and thoroughly battle-tested.

That's still a poor argument, there's no harm done in it being redundant. There is harm, however, if everyone thinks like that and MAGA successfully takes control of a perceived stronghold with a relative majority made possible by a low turnout.

This is an extremely naive and faulty stance, proven repeatedly wrong in history (even modern), and exactly the one they're (successfully) pushing onto you. If you think the status quo is bad, wait until you'll wake up trapped in a theocratic authoritarian regime.

Once you've lost the democracy you're taking for granted, rest assured you'll do a 180° backflip on this.

The problem is that you care about what they say and not about what they do. Who among the Democrat primary winners (or even among Democrat primary candidates) even advocate for communist policies? The party is objectively centrist (actual center, not radical center), leaning towards neoliberalism (centre-rightwing) with the current leadership. Meanwhile, MAGA republicans are using the SCOTUS as a partisan tool to push for their regressive agenda (remember when the "centrists" said they would've never overturned Roe) and are now hinting that voting rights will be the next thing to follow the fate of Roe itself (https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/moore-v-harper-voting-rights-election-law-and-future-american-democracy), openly advocating for shrinking the separation between church and state, openly advocating for violence (and actually tried a coup already).

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Long story short, you're being gaslighted by MAGA possibly without even realizing. As I stated multiple times now, not voting only helps the extremists raise to power by giving them the low turnout they need, and certainly won't land you an electoral reform - or better, one that won't give you more representation than you have now; MAGA fascists have already abundantly demonstrated that, if they manage to get in power once again, they'll try to lock themselves into it perpetually.

It's the political equivalent of turning your face to the other side at the sight of a serial killer murdering a victim while claiming "neutrality", because the very same serial killer managed to convince you that he's above the law and reporting him would be useless, until you'll be the next victim.

@Elessar Dude, nearly all political slogans are explicitly or implicitly nationalist. Voters care primarily about domestic issues. They're not voting for leader of the world, just president of their country.

In either case, you're heavily implying that MAGA is far more politically savvy than they actually are. This is my point about fear-mongering all along. You're trying to gaslight me by telling me just how cunning and manipulative these people are, yet they let the Senate races in Georgia fall to the Democrats because they refused to turn out to vote in what they thought was a rigged election. They made clowns of themselves in Arizona by running a fraudulent audit. Candidates that are running right now are staking their claim in the fact that the 2020 elections were rigged, all while trying to get people to vote in an election where none of the rules or procedures have changed.

You're completely out of touch with their rhetoric if you seriously believe that they know their policies won't convince a significant portion of Americans. Just like you, these people live in their echo chambers only believing the negative claims about the 'other side'. They don't listen critically to anyone who thinks differently from them, and as a result they're flabbergasted that 80 million people could vote for Biden.

They don't believe that a significant part of the American population could vote for a Democrat because they don't bother to interact meaningfully with any Democrats. They don't adhere to facts. They genuinely believe that a majority of this country wanted Trump and were cheated out of election process by all sorts of conspiratorial fuckery. They live in fantasyland, not the real world.

There is quite a bit of harm in it being redundant because if they know they can win handily, they won't bother appealing to more moderate voters. Right now, both parties are losing the support of moderates, so if they want to win closely contested elections, they're going to have to abandon the most extreme part of their platforms. There's power in abstaining when both parties are becoming more polarized in order to galvanize their base.

Democrats talk a big game about building a better society, but tend to get very little done when actually given a shot. It's naive to think they're working in the interest of the people when there's so many political donations for them to make by appealing to certain industries, like the banks, medical insurers, big pharma, and the MIC under Obama. Biden is getting the support of hedge funds, private equity, financial services, and real estate. Like I said, the rich keep getting richer.

You're assuming that I believe we have a fair democracy in the first place. We don't. The system is designed so that those in power stay in power and only a handful of races are even competitive. MAGA is a fairly recent phenomena that is eating its own tail by alienating their own base. They're calling anyone who disagrees with them a RINO or a traitor and pushing their own voters out of the party.

The GOP is seeing significant declines in fundraising because Trump is sucking up and hoarding his donations, presumably for a 2024 run. But it doesn't even matter for most Americans since only about 10 states out of the 50 are competitive enough to bother voting in. The rest of the electoral votes are essentially already in the bag.


The problem is that you're assuming that you know what I care about. I'm pointing out how every election cycle is filled with fear-mongering just like yours, how as soon as the other side wins, they're going to transform this nation into some form of dystopia, our rights and freedoms will be lost forever, and corruption will run rampant while people suffer.

The reality, however, is that as soon as the other party takes power, nothing really happens other than them finding ways to keep it. The priorities of their parties are dictated by party leadership (Pelosi, McConnell, Schumer, and McCarthy) and every other official is basically irrelevant. They're measured with their rhetoric so as not to make promises, they time their policies around election cycles , they abuse media coverage to highlight the importance of their party, and they spend most of their energy trying to smear the other side.

People are still running into medical debt and paying exorbitant amounts for prescription drugs despite Obama running on universal healthcare. Trump spent billions on a useless border wall and his allies scammed people out of their political donations. Biden, to his credit, is at least in the process of keeping his promises, but given the impending risk of a recession in the near future, it may not even matter.

I'm not being gaslighted by anybody since, unlike you, I don't let myself become controlled by fear. You've already shown how much you lack any conviction, since the only reasoning for voting you've provided is to avoid a doomsday scenario. I've lived through enough election cycles to realize that it's all rhetoric. Culture war narratives come and go and even if one or two come true, they'll likely become undone in the next election cycle. You've just been suckered into believing the fear-mongering like a fish to a dangling worm.

MAGA isn't at all equivalent to a serial killer. They're just a bunch of morons that believe everything they read on Facebook, and their rhetoric alone is enough to dissuade people from supporting them. Hence why a doddering airhead like Biden was able to win easily in 2020.

If anything MAGA is doing a great service to my cause because they're showing exactly how easy it is for extremists to hijack a political party. It highlights the need for democracy reforms, for open primaries, for ranked-choice voting, for moderation in politics, for independent redistricting, for automatic voter registration, for a balanced media, for social media regulation, etc.

Continuing to fight in a culture war just perpetuates the animosity on both sides and makes dialogue increasingly toxic. It's doing more to drive us to civil war than it is to drive us to a vibrant democracy. I'm not going to abandon my principles because people are intent on using fear as the language of politics. I believe in helping people, and I'll continue to fight for that even if I need to take on the ire of both political parties.

@TinyViolins Couldn't have said it better myself.

@TinyViolins Your argument is essentially "they're too dumb to seize power, so it might as well be worth it let them try, just to try make my point come across, by doing something that I know has absolutely zero chances of changing things in a positive way".

The "I've seen fearmongering in many election cycles" is as dumb as an excuse as the kid who insists riding his bike without a helmet and 3x as fast as the speed limit because "I've always done it so many times and I've never crashed!" - until one day the crash happens. You're still focusing on what is being said and not what is being done - 2008 Republicans didn't stage a coup when they lost to Obama, 2012 Republicans didn't pack the supreme court in order to overturn abortion rights, environment regulations and soon voters' rights.

It's not a matter of "fear" (word that MAGA folks are obsessed and that not coincidentally you're repurposing), this false sense of superiority that you have if you believe that everyone around you minus for other "centrists" is controlled by fear is exactly how they control you. You aren't above the parts, you aren't resistant to propaganda, you aren't even an actual centrist. You're gaslighted (and just like every victim of gaslighting, you'll argue you aren't) into doing something that is completely useless for you - because as I've said no electoral reform will rain down magically from the sky just because you didn't vote en masse, elections don't lose validity if you "strike", it's not a goddamn factory that needs workers to operate - but extremely useful for whoever needs a low turnout in order to have a relative majority and with it seize power indefinitely, exactly like it's happened in any and every democratic system fallen into a fascistic regime.

You can come up with as many excuses you want to justify not voting, ultimately this won't change one bit - again, neither electoral reforms nor democracy rain down magically from the sky, and neither of them are in any way obtainable with "striking", and again you're only doing MAGA a huge favor.

@Elessar That's exactly my point. You're worried about a bunch of noise on the internet. Social media is not the real world. Trump single-handedly lost the House, the Senate, and the Presidency in just one term. The same basic thing happened to Obama before him. Power keeps swinging back and forth because more Americans exist in the middle than they do on either side.

You're acting as if most Trump supporters are in favor of overturning the government. Only 800 arrests have been made in connection to Jan. 6, out of thousands that attended the rally that day. If you watch some of the videos, you'll see a significant number of attendees fleeing the crowd when things became violent, you'll see people huddled outside the capitol refusing to follow the mob, you'll see people in the crowd asking police to send reinforcements because they sensed how bad things were going to get.

That isn't to say that there aren't elements of domestic terrorism within the ranks of MAGA. I've already stated that far-right extremism is the largest national security threat in the US. But it's disingenuous to assume that the majority of those on the right are in favor of an insurrection. Like I said, you're letting fear cloud your perception of reality.

Calling me gaslighted for making MY OWN decisions, for being unswayed by radical rhetoric, for sticking up for my beliefs, while you're cowering in fear over a bunch of conspiracy nuts is laughable. You're so drunk off the kool-aid you can't even reason properly.

Ultimately, it's preachy, dismissive, and antagonistic shitbags like you that make people refuse to support the left even if the policies make sense to them. They would rather let the government swing power to the whackos than continue to suffer the temper tantrums of adult babies that get indignant whenever they don't get their way.

The sad part is that you're so sanctimonious and smug that you don't even realize how badly you're shooting yourself in the foot by alienating anybody that would've supported you. You're a control-freak that can't handle the fact that other people think for themselves. What's the point of supporting someone like you that refuses to listen to any disagreements?

@TinyViolins More excuses. I've already covered everything you're throwing at me, I'm not going to repeat myself over and over. Go on with accusing me of being "impaired by fear" as much as you like if that makes you feel better about yourself, I suppose. I'm not lowering myself to debating that.

When you'll have a demonstrable explanation of how "striking" elections and allowing MAGA to get the low turnout they're desperate to get is going to land you with an electoral reform that doesn't permanently lock MAGA in the government, let me know. Until then you're objectively risking to do them a favor by doing something that has ZERO chances of benefiting you personally in any realistic way.

Taking a risk that will necessarily leads to ZERO gains is utterly dumb, no matter how much you try to fancy it.

@Elessar How could they be desperate for low turnout if they believe that ballots are being faked, that democrats are voting multiple times, and that the machines themselves are switching votes? You're almost as much of a conspiracy theorist as they are. If anything, they should want more turnout to outweigh the vote rigging they perceive to be happening.

Your reasoning isn't even being driven by facts. It's just politically motivated. There's no point in arguing with someone that is so dogmatically biased and fueled by hatred. What's worse is that you don't even live in the country or interact with any of the people in it. Your entire philosophy is based on what you read on social media from the morons that flock to politics. You're operating from what you gather from virtual echo chambers. The real world isn't like that.

You've voted in, what, ZERO American elections in your life, and you seriously have the nerve to dictate American elections to me? You're so full of yourself that it's like talking to a wall. Jesus, it's like you're only interested in stroking your own ego. You're the kind of guy that would break an arm patting himself on the back. I'm fine ending the discussion here. You can now be free to be a caustic little shitstain somewhere else

@TinyViolins Because you're again focusing on what they tell instead of what they do. Why do you care so much about what they say? Not even they themselves believe that cr#p about voter fraud, why would you? They need a low turnout in order to win an election as 2020 clearly demonstrated. And what conspiracy, overturning Roe still seems like a conspiracy to you? The Jan 6 coup against the certification of their loss is a conspiracy too?

My reasoning is mainly driven by the (tangible) facts happened ever since they've gone ballistic after losing the recentmost election, so go figure. Once again false "centrist" sense of superiority strikes again and you're projecting onto me your reliance on their own propaganda for basing your reasoning.

If there's someone patting his own back while categorically refusing to explain how the heck striking from an election en-masse is going to benefit him while MAGA is hellbent into voting the most extremist red candidate they can choose from, that one ain't me.