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Did anybody vote for this kind of Brexit?

May's deal gives us access to trade with the EU on more or less equal terms but gives us no power to decide anything and won't stop freedom of movement. It doesn't guarantee worker protections but - under the state aid rules - it makes it hard for governments to do major economic interventions like nationalising industries.

Its a Conservative (in all senses) soft Brexit.

A case can be made that this is not the worst outcome. But nobody can make the case that this is a good outcome because it has some (though not all) of EU membership benefits, no voting or veto rights and gains [i]nothing[/i] at all. So much for 'taking back control'.

A lot of people will blame politicians for selling out Brexit but this misses the point. There is no way that a good Brexit deal could be negotiated because the EU has over five times our power and no incentive to let us have our cake and eat it. May [i]has[/i] negotiated this badly but nobody who calls her soft has a tenible strategy for how they would do better. Boris and Jacob Reece Mogg flying to Brussels tomorrow and telling Johnny foreigner where to stick to make Britain Great again doesn't really count as a plan.

People [i]have[/i] been sold out by politicians but that happened [i]before[/i] the referendum when people were promised something that the politicians knew they could never deliver.

Nobody voted for this deal. We need a referendum on it.
SW-User Best Comment
Noel is available to sort it out

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RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
A second referendum should also be called simply by virtue of the fact that the populace was hoodwinked by the claims of the Brexiteers before the first referendum , to say nothing of the revelations only now coming to light of outright illegality and corrupt foreign influence. It was interesting to hear this week that Robert Mueller now has Nigel Farage as a subject of interest in the Russia investigation. There's a nexus here between Trump / Putin / Assange / Farage / Bannon / Cambridge Analytica which needs to be explored. The unexpectedness of the Leave vote and the surprise election of Trump are very unlikely coincidences. We need to know [b]exactly[/b]what transpired in both cases.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@Platinum 'immediate recession, house price crash, £4300 worse off and a crash in the markets.' ... if Britain leaves with no deal then all those things will almost certainly come to pass.


'all these things against Trump and Farage will be proved lies' ...... and your certainty of that is based on what exactly , their denials ?
Platinum · M
Explain your qualifications that makes you an expert, you are certain all these things that were forecast two years ago and never happened, but now you think they will...if we leave with a no deal, which I'm certain won't happen, then we can start trading under WTO rules and we will be billions better off and all the scaremongers will hide away...@RodionRomanovitch @RodionRomanovitch
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@Platinum I don't claim to be an expert but those that are , at the IMF for example , seem to agree in their latest report.

And Trump and Farage , we should just take their word for it ?
thatscottishguy · 26-30, M
I feel a second referendum is coming 😉
thatscottishguy · 26-30, M
It has long been decided we will call it Sexit.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Platinum · M
@thatscottishguy for a Scottish referendum
Platinum · M
We voted once and voted to leave...May is a remainer and never intended to leave while she was PM...she has got us a deal that will be worse than remaining, we need a PM who wants to leave and can put a deal together..the eu does have an incentive to give us a deal, 39 billion and 630 billion pounds of trade...if we have another referendum, which I believe will be fixed, and the vote says remain , this country would be split and this country would never be the same again..if the vote still says leave, remainers will still not accept the result and we would still be in the same position...we need May to resign and someone take her place who has a backbone and can put a good deal to the eu and be willing to walk away...
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Platinum Oh o agree about Gove. He was the worst education secretary of all time and is a Z list Frank Underwood.
Platinum · M
@Burnley123 see we can agree on something...lol
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Platinum 👍️
Platinum · M
What do you suggest the new referendum will say....Mays deal, agree or disagree
MartinII · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 I’m not saying that economic forecasts are 100% wrong all, or even any, of the time. I’m saying none of them are 100% right any of the time. All economists do not predict “hard” Brexit will be bad - Patrick Minford’s pro-Brexit group of distinguished economists take the opposite view. Most current UK economists are anti-Brexit, but that’s a political, not a scientific or academic, position. As I say, all of them, whether pro or anti Brexit, will be wrong, to some extent. If you think about it, that must be the case. Brexit, in any form, will carry huge risks and opportunities. So will remaining. So will the curious hybrid currently proposed by the Prime Minister. What the country, and future governments, will make of the risks and opportunities, on any scenario, is anybody’s guess.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@MartinII Can you honestly see Brexit ending well?
MartinII · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 Of course I can. In fact I can’t see it ending badly. The same goes for remaining. Of course whether Brexit turns out to be better than remaining would have been, or indeed vice versa, is something that no-one will be able to judge conclusively, because the counter-factual will be impossible to establish. But no judgment of any kind will be possible except in the long term, and therefore probably not in my lifetime.
Xuan12 · 31-35, M
Yeah...pretty much not delivering on anything they promised.
Platinum · M
@Burnley123 you should never vote again unless you can respect the result.....
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Platinum Is this the result you wanted?
Platinum · M
@Burnley123 I've answered that before...leaving was the right choice but if you mean the deal, it's not what I wanted as it ties us to the eu for ever..
MartinII · 70-79, M
No-one voted for any deal, as you remainers were very fond of saying at the time. The point that remainers seem unable to get into their thick heads* is that 52% of voters were happy to vote leave even though they had no idea what leaving would look like. (* Nothing personal intended. But since remainer commentators habitually accuse their opponents of being thick - Matthew Parris said I and 19 million others had “defective mental processes” - I feel entitled to respond, speaking generally, in kind.)
Adec757 · 51-55, M
Did anyone who voted leave seriously believe we'd just be able to walk out, stop paying and merrily trade immediately with everyone plus stop free movement just like that...... Pretty dim if they thought that's what would happen!!!
Adec757 · 51-55, M
@Burnley123 yes they still do! The issue with the Brexit politicians is that they are all minted, are Brexit proof!!!
Platinum · M
That's a stupid thing to say , because all remain politicians are minted and want to remain to get on the eu gravy train after they finish being a minister here...@Adec757
Platinum · M
@Adec757 so you actually think we are prisoners of the eu, we are in there and can't leave but must remain and go on paying them forever...of course we expected to be able to leave and stop paying them..we live in a free world and the WTO have already said they will adjust the rules and allow us to trade under their rules in our own right without the eu...and being out of the eu we can close our borders....I think you are pretty dim to think we have to remain in a union that a bunch of unelected people order us about and make our rules and charge us more money every year while trading less each year could continue....you make a great case for leaving...
TheConstantGardener · 56-60, M
By trying to please everyone she has pleased no one. The clock is ticking too ⏲️
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